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27 June screwup - theory part 2

     
2:37 pm on Jul 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

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<continued from: http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/35125.htm [webmasterworld.com]>

Does anyone have any input on why if this (June 27) is a mistake it is taking so long to fix?

[edited by: tedster at 7:44 pm (utc) on July 18, 2006]

7:07 pm on July 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Well another great day so far, naff all sales and now my last few pages with any SERPS are dropping further. Perhaps it would be easier if I sent google a list of any pages that make money so they could more easily remove them!

I've just about had enough, no answers to my direct contact with G, no word from GG or Matt and meantime genuine conetn rich sites go to the wall.

10:39 am on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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sorry for the question, but what means the "4 page penalty"?

On a side note, I'm getting demands from my fellow employees to put another search engine on the intranet. I dates back to 1999 when i got such requests. To me it is a strong indication that de Google index is screwed up somehow.

11:07 am on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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All MSN needs to do for 12 months is exactly what Google did in the beginning. Straight search - no advertising and they will be the leaders within a year provided they keep focussed on providing good results and become webmaster friendly (as G was in the early days).
12:13 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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What if Google screwed things up so as to drive more traffic through the AdWords links that appear on the search results page?

Purposefully? Subconciously? Just for fun?

How will this all wash out when they issue their quarterly report? Will their AdWords revenue be higher or lower?

1:02 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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I feel for you guys who have dropped position in the G index, but my content rich, written for the web user, valid html and css websites are doing better since June 27th.

Therefore I put it to you that this was not a screw up, just a natural cycle in search engine results.

As for MSN a better search engine...not true! I am still beaten in their serps by spammy, badly coded, black hat websites.

Just my 2 cents.....

1:21 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Ah, but my strictly white hat websites have suffered and are content rich, written for the web user, with valid html and css.
1:23 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Yes.. also my strictly white hat websites have suffered and are content rich, written for the web user, with valid html and css.

THIS IS A COMPLETE SCREW UP, unless google has decided that spam, spam and more spam is what their visitors want in their results.

1:30 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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I feel for you guys who have dropped position in the G index, but my content rich, written for the web user, valid html and css websites are doing better since June 27th.

I'd be tempted to start crossing my fingers and looking for the rrors in my site if I were you because when they fix this thing you may be in for a bumpy ride. Google is definitely broken and if they don't fix it they will just break it some more in a different place.

Sid

2:05 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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I'd be tempted to start crossing my fingers and looking for the rrors in my site if I were you because when they fix this thing you may be in for a bumpy ride.

Hissingsid is spot on. you can easily fix your own website - in fact, I have already done so - but you can't fix Google. If this were an update, I wouldn't be worried either. Although my site is from 2004, it's update resistent.
Of course I'm happy for that guy whose site has risen since 6/27, but it's not because of 6/27.
6/27 just removed or deranked a number of sites, but left the rest of the index unaffected.

2:27 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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but my content rich, written for the web user, valid html and css websites are doing better since June 27th

congrats

but the reason maybe because other WH sites with valid html/css have been hit, maybe you should enjoy your extra traffic while you can

dazz

2:52 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Does GoogleGuy still exist?

Does he both to comment on what happened and why legit sites keep getting flipped the Google bird, while spam rises to the top?

3:15 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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MrBlack,

In every update, these things will happen (to one degree or another):

1) Some white hat sites will go up, some will go down
2) Some white hat sites will retain their position
3) Some black hat sites will go up, some will go down
4) Some black hat sites will retain their position

When a site moves up, it means sites above it were removed.

When a site goes down, it means other sites were inserted above it

Since we cannot determine why some older, white hat sites went down and some did not, we are just trading war stories.

What we need to do is quantify, gather specifics and come up with theories that are supported by facts. So far, in the opinion of several of those who post here, there is nothing that we can really identify and support (with other than anecdotal evidence). Given that, there is a real possibility that G is just plain broken. The fact that this "brokeness" benefits one member or another is not relevant, unless we can say why.

3:23 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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THIS IS A COMPLETE SCREW UP, unless google has decided that spam, spam and more spam is what their visitors want in their results.

This is NOT a complete screw up. I say again, my websites are now top of the results for my chosen keywords , as they should be, after June 27th cleaned out the blackhat, keyword spamming websites that were beating them.

I'd be tempted to start crossing my fingers and looking for the rrors in my site if I were you

No errors in my websites. All hand coded from the ground up strictly within Google's webmaster guidelines.

If I were y'all I would use this lull in traffic as an excuse to do all of the things you have been waiting to do to improve your websites, and then just ride out your storm. If you all are as white as you say you are you should be back in very soon.

3:52 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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This IS a screw up, read what others have posted to see why you were FORTUNATE to remain on top.
4:10 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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"hubris (n): Excessive pride, often taking the form of a boastful comparison of the self to others--often also resulting in harsh punishment."
4:22 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Does GoogleGuy still exist?

Well, he did say something, with the implicit meaning that he doesn't want to say anything.

Why don't we ask msndude, hey hey!

4:24 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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If I were y'all I would use this lull in traffic as an excuse to do all of the things you have been waiting to do to improve your websites, and then just ride out your storm. If you all are as white as you say you are you should be back in very soon.

You misunderstand I'm still #1 for the really big volume terms, I'm still spending $50,000 on Adwords and I'm still doing very well for traffic but the index is still well and truly screwed up.

If you benefitted from what happenned on 27 June, I would not crow about it I would make hay while the sun shines because the chances are your benefit will be very short lived.

Sid

5:42 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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MrBlack,

Perhaps I wasn't clear. That fact that any one of us was not reamed does not mean that the SERPs aren't junk. The discussion should not be one of anyone crowing or crying about how it affected them individually. That is utterly pointless. The discussion should be about the sorry state of the SERPs (from a user's perspective) and why GoogleGuy and Adam are still in an Undisclosed Location.

Just to clarify:

Some of those posting here got nailed. That is irrelevant.

Some, including myself did not. That is also irrelevant.

Sharing individual experiences, without some quantitative support is pointless.

Is more specificity needed on this concept?

6:17 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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More than likely they are working on fighting the 5 billion page spammer. He keeps showing up in the serps under different urls, and keeps getting deindexed.

If your site has fallen from the 27th it is because of a change that google made. Now, instead of arguing about who's site is better or complaining about spam which will always be there, why do you not all share on changes you made on your sites and the impact.

Forums should be used to share good information that will help us all. I have seen many people complain about their sites then if you go look at them, they are not even compliant with googles guidelines.

My advice, before you complain check your own sites and make sure they are in those guidelines before you complain because 99% of the time your not in those guidelines.

Please, share good information for those of us who come here to look for good advice. Gosh, my kids do not even whine and complain as much as some of you do on here.

6:35 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Well gosh, if you feel we are complaining leave. I would love for you to try to follow guidelines 100% and then lose 100% of traffic while spam sites rank #1. It's not complaining, just frustrations when we follow the rules google itself has laid out.

Don't make universal judgements like "99% of us don't follow guidelines" since in this thread 100% of us do. If you've looked over "some sites" and found they didn't follow guidelines that is perhaps 0.00001% that you've witnessed in whole.

Don't waste time accusing us affected of not doing our homework. Instead let's make this thread much more valuable but sharing experiences and valuable insights of what progress if any google is taking in correcting it's mistakes.

[edited by: AustrianOak at 6:41 pm (utc) on July 19, 2006]

6:50 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Yes indeed check your sites and clean up orphans and everything. My site that got hit on the 27th of June did have many orphan files. Outside of that I pass with compliency 100%. Since the 27th doing the site: me .com put my index on the middle of results and many old files showing up that never did before and getting supplemental hell now.

I think this mess up is part of a google spam filter gone bad. They are digging deep into our sites trying to find age and everything so many older sites are getting hit hard because of orphans and page changes and whatnot cleared off of our servers and it's confusing the heck out of google right now as they explore us "beta spam filter" style.

Google is also broken as I think googlebase and froogle types of mergers not working so well as those algos don't work on mixing into the main search?

8:40 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Keep in mind Google stocks did not make their projections for the quarter (not even close since BigDaddy). They are hurting right now so they are going after high money keywords to try and get more adwords accounts? My opinion.
8:47 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Sara,

Thanks for that bit of info, your site sounds like it has improved and that is good feedback.

AustrianOak,

Give me a url and 5 minutes and I guarantee I will find a page that is not in googles guidelines. My pages are not perfect but I can tell you that I am improving them. I would much rather read comments like sara made about orphan files that complaining about spam.

Spam will always be there, deal with it. There is a proper place to complain about googles search quality and that is to send google and email and feedback. There are also ways to report spam. If you see it report it. That is the world we live in and how we have to deal with it.

8:54 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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trinorthlighting, you need to relax and more importantly open your eyes.

Like I wrote earlier, don't spend time gloating here. This thread is for the people who were affected that are 100% innocent. We are trying to find answers. You are not helping.

That is the WEBMASTERworld we live in and how we have to deal with it.

;-)

[edited by: AustrianOak at 9:02 pm (utc) on July 19, 2006]

8:56 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Sara,

"Keep in mind Google stocks did not make their projections for the quarter (not even close since BigDaddy). They are hurting right now so they are going after high money keywords to try and get more adwords accounts? My opinion."

I agree..

9:01 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Yes it is a google spam filter and as they try to deal with subdomain spam they are using old algo caches and MORE!
to rate our sites and in the process finding a mess that both google and us created.

Lets sharpen our sites, but in the process google is trying to read too much of our sites and filtering us out based on old news as well as new news?

10:18 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Google knows they have problems. if they could have perfecy search results, they would have perfect search results. It's probably true that they are in such disarray right now in large part because they have had poor judgment on how screwed up they are, but they certainly aren't trying to be so screwed up.
10:29 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Does anyone else with the June 27th problem see dramatically improved rankings when either a country or language is explicitly selected?

Since when have Google returned French results in the top 10 to a searcher in the UK looking for Sony Widgets, for example? That's what's happening now, unless the user explicitly selects "cr=countryUK¦countryGB", or "lr=lang_en", or both. Maybe this is one of the June 27th bugs?

In the past, Google would automatically serve appropriate results to the searcher's location based on IP address. The country and language paramaters made little difference at the top end.

Looks to me like, as of the 27th, Google may have screwed up their auotomated GEO targeting or else screwed up their Geographic and/or language index partitioning for effected sites.

[edited by: ClintFC at 10:42 pm (utc) on July 19, 2006]

10:50 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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Does anyone else with the June 27th problem see dramatically improved rankings when either a country or language is explicitly selected?

In the business related search terms I am watching, the results are the same whether I search specifically for English only or not. So I don't see a geo-type of bug/problem...

11:21 pm on July 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

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I'm not sure that business related search terms are strong candidates for illustrating the problem, if one exists.

Multilingual search terms like Brandname Product_Code, however, are definately showing some strange behaviour at the moment on the DCs I've looked at. Can't say how long this has been going on though because I haven't really paid much attention until now.

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