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index page recently dropped by MSN Search

site was doing well now it is gone?

     

afterburner

2:47 pm on Apr 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Can anyone tell me if they experienced this lately on MSN Search. I had a site doing quite well for some very good keywords, top 10 rankings. Site has about 12 pages internally and about 20,300 backlinks according to Yahoo. As of a week or two ago when I do a search for MYdomain.com I get a total of 4 pages back and they do not include the index.html page. I wrote to MSN Search and they gave me a reply stating that only high quality sites will rank well and maybe my site is not linked correctly (the index page is linked to from every page on the site)?

I also have other sites that I SEO`d the exact same way and they are all fine and still ranking on Page 1 in msn.com?

If anyone had similar problems and have since fixed them please sticky me or reply to this thread.
Thanx
Afterburner

lisa2005

6:01 pm on Apr 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



it is weird. I experience the same issue as well. My site will rank 1 or 2 on the keyword i am going after. But the moment i make a change to the index page, i will drop off msn completely, nowhere to be found. I will have to wait two days for they to recache my page.

anyone knows why?

seoArt

7:52 pm on Apr 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Similar problem with my site. Homepage has dropped out since the last update. It is normally a top ranking site for popular search phrases with more quality backlinks than any other sites it competes with. Now the homepage is gone, but some interior pages show up down lower in the SERPS.

The site has a 301 redirect, static IP. Is MSN having problems with 301's? Any ideas?

afterburner

11:01 pm on Apr 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



well now I have Zero pages in the MSN index, don`t know what is going on? Site is clean, did make some minor adjustments to the pages a few weeks back, guess that triggered something?

nolen1

2:50 pm on Apr 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have the same problem with my site. My homepage has also dropped out since the last update. It's normally a top ranking site. It does have a 301 redirect and I've also been wondering if MSN is having a problem with that.

LunaC

5:28 pm on Apr 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think MSN is very much having troubles with 301's.

My site was ranking great until I added 301's to try to help Google sort out their mess (Cannonical probs and old 302 hijack issues). Now in MSN for example.com/ no results are found, take of the slash and its always 1 page... that page changes but its always a page that should be redirected.

ie. oldpage.html 301 -> newpage.php

oldpage.html will be the only page listed from my site. The cache shows:

Moved Permanently
The document has moved here.

Apache/1.3.33 Server at example.com Port 80

I've tested the redirect in quite a few ways, everything looks fine. These redirects have been in place for around 6 months, msnbot is still spidering as frantic as usual and looks like it goes through the 301 just fine.

I tested at one point using robots.txt to block oldpage1.html, the only difference was that MSN quickly changed what page is coming up for example.com

Google is still having a ton of issues so I'm afraid to remove the 301's in case they will help G. eventually.

Anyone else see anything like this?

gerg99

4:42 pm on Apr 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



My site was recently dropped after about 5 months of high rankings.

We had a great first 8 days of April then on the 9th 90% of our pages were dropped. Then 3 days later the rest were dropped from the index too.

MSN still recognizes all of my inbound links but I have completely dissapeared from the index. It has been over two weeks. I don't have any redirects and it is good clean code. It doesn't make any sense.

Let me know what you guys find.

afterburner

9:31 am on May 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



well much to my surprise my site is completely back! All pages are indexed and my main keyword phrase is back in the top 10!

jbgmotd

5:00 pm on May 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member


My site is the #1 result for the top keywords on MSN in a ultra competative market in my locale, until the last few days when my home page dissapeared! Not good. I had this happen about three months ago and it took 2 weeks to get my home page back in the rankings.

My 100 or so other pages continue to drive some traffic, but more like page 2 to page 4 results than the overall #1 rankings I usually get. Makes no sense. I almost wonder if my service happened to be down for a few seconds when they showed up to reindex and thus left me out until a revisit?

Patience is a virtue, I guess.

jbgmotd

Jedi

4:45 pm on May 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Also consider this... has your server been down recently?

MSN spiders a lot and if your site or a particular page was down that may be why you were dropped till the next crawl.

Same happened to my site <snip>

[edited by: engine at 2:23 pm (utc) on May 22, 2006]
[edit reason] No urls, thanks [/edit]

F_Rose

4:49 pm on May 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



jbgmotd,

Being #1 on MSN, are you getting a lots of hits?

jbgmotd

5:54 pm on May 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Yes, I get a lot of MSN hits for my real estate site. In fact right now I count on it. My site was brand new in November and in the last month I've just started getting respect from Google/Yahoo. MSN right now drives 50% of my daily traffic of 150 or so daily unique visitors. Obviously that percentage will go down as I continue to improve on Google/Yahoo. Based on the perentages I hear (Google 50%, Yahoo 25%, MSN 15% of the pie), it seems to me that in the future my traffic should multiply five times over, once I peak in Yahoo/Google.

... and by the way my home page returned today. Not yet seeing the #1 overall ranking again, but first or second page right most important searches. I hope a full recovery comes soon...

jbgmotd

F_Rose

6:06 pm on May 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



"... and by the way my home page returned today. Not yet seeing the #1 overall ranking again, but first or second page right most important searches. I hope a full recovery comes soon... "

Do you give yourself any credit for this? Have you made any changes ever since your home page dropped?

jbgmotd

8:14 pm on May 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



I give myself no credit for it returning. The day before it went away I updated my home page (minor changes to body - nothing else). Maybe that caused some sort of problem, but more than likely the server was down when MSN visited. When it revisited this morning it put my home page back in, but less than stellar results. I'm not really worried. I expect things will return to normal soon, but you never know with these wacky search engines.

jbgmotd

zeus

2:00 pm on May 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



it has also happend to me sometimes, but then the index(domain name.com) page returns after a day or 2, so I dont have that big a panic yet, because it happend today again.

Wally_Books

5:12 pm on May 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



We've been slowly losing pages indexed on MSN for the last 3 weeks or so. We were at about 2100 pages and now down to 1200. Haven't seen their bot very much either. It had been going the other way (up). Yahoo is the reverse. Adding pages daily. Google, supplemental h*ll but partial recovered, about 10%.

jbgmotd

7:49 pm on May 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



I'm back completely. #1 again for the most sought after search terms on MSN. (sigh of relief)

Now I can get back to servicing clients rather than thinking about search engines, as I again have two search engine friends. Now as for that Google... that ridiculous search engine lists directories or crap for every first page search listing - not a single individual Realtor is listed. Surely they can do better. If I'm looking for a referral realtor in Kansas City and I type in "Kansas City Realtors" finding a directory just means I have to start my search over, right? Sorry, I guess I should post that in the "Google" forum.

Two other things before I go... (1) I forgot to mention that I did resubmit my home page to MSN after it dissapeared. I doubt this did any good whatsoever, but thought I'd point it out just in case. (2) in the last 2-3 days MSN has updated the backlinks it shows to each site - I dropped from about 2,000 to 1,600. I ran my check on my competition and they all also dropped proportionately (sp?) so I guess that's just normal adjustments after an update?

Good luck to all in the search engine rat race. But hey, if I can become #1 on MSN in just a few months anyone can do it. I knew nothing about search engines six months ago.

jbgmotd

kanetrain

8:20 pm on May 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



We're gone... exact same problem... happened a few days ago and hasn't returned. Our site was down for an hour or so back then...I'm wondering if it came to index the site, found nothing and dropped it from the index... or maybe I'm just unlucky :) No material changes to front page.

I'll sit back and see what happens. My home page looks like it's actually back but way down from where it was before.

I think MSN is the a bit volatile at the moment. It's a good thing sometimes, and it's a bad thing when your front page just disappears.

[edited by: kanetrain at 8:50 pm (utc) on May 20, 2006]

kanetrain

8:29 pm on May 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



OK I did some additional research and figured out what's wrong....
MSN has my homepage indexed twice.

1. www.mysite.com
2. www.mysite.com/index.htm

I've never seen this on msn and it's consitent with a dupe content penalty or something. Apparently they are having trouble telling that those are the same page...in fact, they are the same thing entirely.
wow.

zeus

1:52 pm on May 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



I dont think its a dup. penalty or filter, I just think its a little glitch in the system everytime they have a little flux in the system, but OK this time it takes a little longer it seems, because I still dont see my index page back on its place.

I will say this is a small glitch compared to googles troubles and just wait a few days and the index page will be back im sure things goes a little farster at MSN I think.

Shurik

2:38 pm on May 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Zeus, IMO it is more then a glitch. It is too systematic to be cause by glitches. I believe it is some sort of penalties that wear off relatively fast compared to google ones. Some penalties wear off faster, some slower but eventually they expire and the pages get back to index until the next re-evaluation. That is my take for what it wort

zeus

4:24 pm on May 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



yes I do see domainname.com/index is in the site:domain results, but still I will call it a glitch and not a penalty.

petehall

3:23 pm on May 23, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Has happened to lots of my sites... it's just a temporary glitch.

Happens on Yahoo! too from time to time!

Shurik

4:28 am on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Being a professional programmer i don't believe in glitches. It is either a bug (too noticeable and going on for too long) or the behavior is by design. Don't underestimate Microsoft's developers. I tent to think the homepage dropping behavior is by design.

zeus

12:17 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



I think it has something to do with that some sites got a domain.com page and a domain.com/index.htm page, but I think a SE should be able to pig domain.com as the main page, also this seems to take a little longer this time, before it took 1-2 day, but now its has almost been a week. ):

gerg99

1:17 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



I just came back over a month later. I am right back where I used to be but the way my header tags are read is different and msn is no longer reading my domain.com page along with my /index.htm page.

petehall

2:19 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Being a professional programmer i don't believe in glitches. It is either a bug (too noticeable and going on for too long) or the behavior is by design. Don't underestimate Microsoft's developers. I tent to think the homepage dropping behavior is by design.

So there's no way an error could have occurred during a crawl which won't be rectified until the next crawl?

I think it has something to do with that some sites got a domain.com page and a domain.com/index.htm page, but I think a SE should be able to pig domain.com as the main page, also this seems to take a little longer this time, before it took 1-2 day, but now its has almost been a week. ):

I never link to two versions of the home page and have still had home pages disappear on occasions.

They always re-appear within a short timescale.

I'm sure they probably 'lose' the odd inner page too, however this is more difficult to spot.

Shurik

6:28 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



So there's no way an error could have occurred during a crawl which won't be rectified until the next crawl?

Yes, when an error occurs during page retrieval you get penalized. Especially if your web server manages to deliver just a portion of the page.

Another way to induce a home page drop out is to substantially change page title and/or H1 tag. Also i believe that number of other "activities" cause page drop out effect. One is crosslinking.

It would be really nice if google datacenter watch people (Reseller and Co.) could apply their energy and perseverance into analyzing MSN instead.

twebdonny

9:57 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)



Same issue with index.htm missing for our site coupled with an extreme loss of traffic.

[edited by: engine at 11:00 am (utc) on June 2, 2006]
[edit reason] formatting [/edit]

kanetrain

10:39 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Good news for us. It came back 2 days ago and is back in full force. I believe it was a glitch/bug with MSN. The good news is that it came back relatively fast.
A similar thing happened to me on Yahoo about 2 years back, and it took 5-6 months to return. Confirmed that it was a bug/glitch with Yahoo too.
Strange indeed.
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