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index page recently dropped by MSN Search

site was doing well now it is gone?



2:47 pm on Apr 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Can anyone tell me if they experienced this lately on MSN Search. I had a site doing quite well for some very good keywords, top 10 rankings. Site has about 12 pages internally and about 20,300 backlinks according to Yahoo. As of a week or two ago when I do a search for MYdomain.com I get a total of 4 pages back and they do not include the index.html page. I wrote to MSN Search and they gave me a reply stating that only high quality sites will rank well and maybe my site is not linked correctly (the index page is linked to from every page on the site)?

I also have other sites that I SEO`d the exact same way and they are all fine and still ranking on Page 1 in msn.com?

If anyone had similar problems and have since fixed them please sticky me or reply to this thread.


1:46 pm on May 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Question, has anyone that experienced this problem of losing the index.htm page using, or just start using adcenter?

[edited by: engine at 10:59 am (utc) on June 2, 2006]
[edit reason] formatting [/edit]


2:51 pm on May 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Anyone showing index.htm pages being reinstated yet?
what has been the response from MSN Serach concerning this problem? Surely, someone here has written to them about such.

[edited by: engine at 10:59 am (utc) on June 2, 2006]
[edit reason] formatting [/edit]


1:18 pm on May 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Ok now I must say itsnot just a glitch, be cause if so they would have fixed it now, like the other times the domainame.com was gone, now its a bug, still no sign of domain name.com only /index.htm is indexed.


3:24 pm on May 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

It turns out that with a large distributed system it's not practical to design it so that it never drops pages. The phone company has a similar problem. The idea is that if we occasiaonlly drop a page, we'll discover it again within a few weeks. (The phone company figures you'll just dial back if you get disconnected.) If it only happens occasionally, it's a tolerable tradeoff, and it makes the system far easier to build.

That said, we've recently been working to improve stability, so it shouldn't be happening nearly as often as it used to. Note that you can speed up the rediscovery process by resubmitting your URL.

If it persists, though, something else is wrong. Despite rumors to the contrary, we do have a process to detect and remove spam pages. If your page has been marked as Spam, then we won't index it again. (And we may drop the entire domain.) If you think this might have happened to you by mistake, let me know and I'll check it. The usual complaint is that we failed to catch spam, but errors are possible the other way too.

Hope this helps!


4:00 pm on May 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Hmm MSNdude could be right here, some sites could be droped because of different technics or even dont know if they are doing something wrong, maybe we all should take a hard look at our sites.


6:18 pm on May 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Msndude, thanks for clearing this up.
I think your post unambiguously confirms my earlier theory (msg# 28) that disappearing home page phenomenon is by design.

As for the new SERP quality in my niche i score it 4 out of 5. The SEPR look more like google now where older sites dominate the first few pages. In part it is because the older sites had a good head start in acquiring the right kind of links back when the links were still free. Some of these sites are hopelessly outdated and do not belong on the first pages for competitive keywords. MSN has a tough job ahead of weeding them out. Personally I liked what I see despite the fact that my sites' positions deteriorated considerably. I thing you are going in the right direction. I wish you would apply some more human factors like "site stickiness data" into determining who does not belong on the first page.


11:27 pm on May 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I feel like a blind person trying to solve a rubics cube when I look at MSN reports.

Comparing MSN referrals across 7 sites, all subdomains off our regular domain, I see no trend similarities at all. No stable or identifiable trends in data for one site over time, and no trend similarities in data between sites*.

Google and Yahoo referral charts look like steady waves in an ocean, with easily identifiable uptrends and downtrends, and a little spurt of disruptiveness now and then.

MSN referral charts look like an ECG of a crackhead on acid. Sorry MSN, but its true. Makes a data analysts job so very hard when 10 property managers are asking me what's going on with MSN?

*Only MSN referral trend that is repeated on all of our sites is that we dropped out for about 3 weeks - all 7 sites, some losing from 1500 to over 10,000 referrals a day for that period. Ouch. If those were our Google referrals alarms would have been going off and possibly missles flying through the air over to Mountain View. No, not really. But WOAH MSN! Will there ever be peace and stability?


12:51 pm on Jun 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member

I guess I was right! Resubmitting my URL after my home page dissapeared on MSN is probably what got me back in after just days (rather than weeks, as when it happened before).

Also, as I have said, my site is not even six months old but I am first page for all of the top real estate key words in my area. No complaints here. I have gotten links back from 2,000+ sites. Over 1,500 hundred of those are page rank 3 or better. I assume that is why I rank so high. I also assume that having the best looking and most informative real estate web site in my city doesn't hurt either. I have put in hundreds of hours and it has paid off on MSN and Yahoo. Google can kiss my butt. In my short SEO life I have learned that Google disgusts me. I have learned that when I am searching for something and I want the best results I go to MSN, not Google. Google throws up old sites that don't give the searcher the information they seek. I don't say that because MY site doesn't come up. The first Realtor sites don't start showing up until page 4 or later, so it's not just me. As far as my satisfaction with relevent searches, Yahoo comes in much closer to MSN than Google. That's why I NEVER use Google when searching online. Now this is not to say that I don't understand the importance of Google. Since Google is the search engine of choice for over 50% of the population (probably only because they have the name recgognition), it is my job to figure out how to do better on Google. Kicking and screaming the whole way.

I thank my lucky stars every day for MSN. It drives the most traffic to my site AND it is my preferred search engine for personal use. Oh, and in the rare instance that I contact them they promptly and politely answer my questions; and I believe they do so without a bunch of b.s.

Just one persons opinions...



1:56 pm on Jun 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Good for you JBGMOTD, I am glad someone has been able to recover from this. Our site, on the other hand, is still missing it's index page. Even after making a drastic change based on info provided from MSNDude, we still have seen no changes. We have continued to resubmit but that doesn't seem to be having an affect on re-inclusion of our index page. Still crossing our fingers and hoping for the best.

[edited by: engine at 10:58 am (utc) on June 2, 2006]
[edit reason] formatting [/edit]


3:01 pm on Jun 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member


Wasn't try to rub it in -- I hope you get your problems figured out quickly. Have 2 weeks passed yet? That's how long it took me the first time it happened to me.



3:38 pm on Jun 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Not quite 2 weeks yet, I was hoping for a followup from msndude or ms itself as we completely removed the section of our site that was creating an issue even though we feel it was not a link farm, but merely a high quality, personaly created, recip link page. Guess we will continue to wait and keep our fingers crossed.
ps: didn't take your comment as any offense at all, glad u have been reinstated!

[edited by: engine at 10:57 am (utc) on June 2, 2006]
[edit reason] formatting [/edit]


10:52 am on Jun 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

Did recieve a followup from MSNdude today concerning our issues and I thank him for looking into it even though I disagree with some of the assertions that I strongly refuted. Guess we shall see what happs next. Fingers still crossed.


2:06 pm on Jun 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

As a matter of policy, we aren't going to discuss the problems of particular sites in any public forum.

While I'm at it, let me mention three other matters of policy:

We won't discuss competitors here -- they have their own forums, and we figure they already have enough people talking about them. :-)

We will not preannounce anything specific here; I might say "we're working extra hard over the summer to fight Spam," but I'm not going to post something like "look for a giant spam-killer release on April first!" After the release goes out and someone notices it, THEN I'll comment on it. If no one notices it, it probably wasn't worth talking about anyway.

Finally, I'm not going to reveal any secret Intellectual Property that would help someone build their own search engine or hack ours. I may start a thread on basics of Machine Learning, though, since I notice that a lot of questions indicate that people don't know how that works, and I think a little understanding would improve the dialog a lot.


3:21 pm on Jun 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Thread (or even site/blog?) on basics of machine learning coming from a search perspective would be AWESOME. :)


3:32 am on Jun 4, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

My site was incorrectly labelled as spam by msn, and I notcied after the index was removed. I contacted them directly, they reviewed my site and send me back a personal email explaining the issue and apologized, and my site is back in the index.

One thing I will say is that it is really nice to actually be able to talk to support instead of getting just a canned response as is the case from other search engines...

This 45 message thread spans 2 pages: 45

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