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Attention Wordsmiths

time for another of lawman's pet peeves

         

lawman

12:06 am on Jun 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I read and hear persons who obviously have a college degree who use the term "it begs the question" in such a manner to mean that "it raises the question". When I learned the term, it meant something else entirely.

How do you use it? If you don't use it, what do understand it to mean?

lawman

AAnnAArchy

6:53 am on Jun 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Latest pet peeve - "less" carbs. Arrrgggh. Currently being used in a national (perhaps international) Bacardi campaign. Of course, it just adds on to seeing anything about carbs anywhere.

mivox

8:25 am on Jun 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I just love to roll around in all those words like a colt in a field of sweet clover.

Ahhhhhhh. *sigh*

Got any room for some Mustangs on your place? I'm out of room...

9.2 acres. There'd be more usable room if someone with a trailer and winch showed up to haul off the auto carcasses the last owner left. ;) No sweet clover though.

Re: less/low/no carbs

Sick of it. Especially ads for "low carb" desserts and beer. Desserts and beer are nothing but recreational carbs. If you want to eat them, pick a different diet plan. Yeesh. I won't eat margarine, I won't drink "low carb beer" and I'm damn well not going near a sugar-free dessert. Ugh. If you're not eating real food, why bother eating? Set up a low-carb sugar-free IV drip instead.

Mr Bo Jangles

9:09 am on Jun 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

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...gosh I hope this isn't going to be on the test ...

v. amusing

deejay

11:41 am on Jun 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

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*gives up biting tongue*

Having been diagnosed with an insulin problem last year and now having to stick to a very low carb diet for life.... those less/low/no carb ads do a hell of a lot to make some of us feel like we can live a somewhat normal lifestyle foodwise. It isn't always just about a diet fad.

We've had low fat/low cholesterol/low salt ads for years now. It's no different.

*puts away soapbox and wanders off.. mumbling an apology for getting offtrack*

lawman

12:21 pm on Jun 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

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The original post about carbs was talking about less (vs. fewer I assume). This isn't a thread about advertising. Please stay on topic.

Your friendly neighborhood lawman

graywolf

1:17 pm on Jun 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Ok fine, it annoys me when people use grilling & barbecuing as if they had the same meaning. Barbecuing uses lower temperatures and much longer cooking times (think hardwood and charcol). Grilling uses much higher temperatures and shorter cooking times (think propane and natural gas).

Ok you can barbecue with propane it just requires a little morse discipline, and you can grill with hardwood but then you don't give the food a chane to absorb any of those smokey flavors.

ronin

4:17 pm on Jun 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

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the media who, being largely illiterate, ignorant college graduates

iamlost> I resemble that remark!

Re: Marquis de Sade...

E's French, innit?!

If you want to call him the "Markwis of Sade", fair enough.

But lots of people call him the "Markee de Sade", parce qu'il est le Marquis de Sade...

The one that gets me is people using "anticipate" to mean "expect".

lawman

5:23 pm on Jun 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

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imply/infer

digitalghost

6:17 pm on Jun 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

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anxious / eager

And something I've always wondered about Lawman, when someone pleads "nolo contendere", is it the facts in the case they aren't contesting, or the charges? I've always assumed that the facts weren't being contested.

For example, Joe Public tosses a brick through Mrs. Johnson's window at 3 a.m. Mrs. Johnson is struck by a brick. Mrs. Johnson dies from a heart attack. Joe Public is charged with murder and pleads no contest. Joe Public is simply stating that he doesn't contest the facts in the case, but is hoping for a different verdict than "guilty of murder" due to extenuating circmumstances.

Oh, and stationary / stationery although I can only pick that one up when it is written... ;)

>>auto carcasses

Definitely have to get rid of the carcasses, Mustangs can't eat Fords or Toyotas...

lawman

7:25 pm on Jun 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

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A defendant pleads to charges, not facts. However a plea has to be supported by facts. The prosecutor presents the State's version. A defendant can accept the prosecutor's version or present his own version. If defendant's version would not support a plea, then the judge would not allow a plea and a trial would be held.

iamlost

7:43 pm on Jun 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

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lawman/lawyer ;-)

mivox

10:32 pm on Jun 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Definitely have to get rid of the carcasses, Mustangs can't eat Fords or Toyotas...

Yeah, mineral salt licks are a much more effective was to get iron in the diet. ;) Too bad they don't eat mosquitoes either. That would be incredibly useful up here.

lawman/lawyer

hehehe... The one that always gets me: lawyer/attorney
I didn't even realize there was a difference, but I've been told it's got to do with whether or not one can practice in court. And I can never remember which is which.

It drives me absolutely batty when people use words they've heard but never read... usually a relatively big or 'intellectual' sounding word, chosen primarily to make themselves look smart. They spell it incorrectly, and generally mis-use it slightly as well, and end up making themselves look not-at-all clever.

lawman

12:35 am on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

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>>hehehe... The one that always gets me: lawyer/attorney
I didn't even realize there was a difference

Attorney at Law is a lawyer. Attorney in Fact is someone who holds power of attorney - a law degree is not required.

Hey maybe I'll check with BT and see if I can change my nick to "Esquire" :)

mivox

8:08 pm on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Attorney at Law is a lawyer. Attorney in Fact is someone who holds power of attorney - a law degree is not required.

haHA! Cool. Thanks for clearing that up. Now I can tell my ex he's full of it, with back-up... (at least on that point). ;)

willybfriendly

8:45 pm on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Begging the Question
( petitio principii )
Definition:
The truth of the conclusion is assumed by the premises.
Often, the conclusion is simply restated in the premises in a
slightly different form. In more difficult cases, the premise is
a consequence of the conclusion.

Examples:
(i) Since I'm not lying, it follows that I'm telling the truth.

(ii) We know that God exists, since the Bible says God exists.
What the Bible says must be true, since God wrote it and
God never lies. (Here, we must agree that God exists in order
to believe that God wrote the Bible.)

Proof:
Show that in order to believe that the premises are true we
must already agree that the conclusion is true.

References:
Barker: 159, Cedarblom and Paulsen: 144, Copi and Cohen: 102, Davis: 33

From Stephen's Guide to the Logical Fallacies (you can google it), a site I have used often. See also, irrelevant conclusion and Straw Man. These fallacies have in common a general failure to prove that the conclusion is true.

WBF

4eyes

9:15 pm on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Sheesh!

Thats an awful lot of people who forgot that English is a living language.

If enough people use a word or phrase "incorrectly", then it eventually becomes correct. Sure, it might take years, decades or even centuries - but thats what happens.

I enjoy being in a 'correct' minority, but have given up fighting futile battles with the bloke on the Clapham omnibus.

I once had an argument with a Lancashire chap about the use of double negatives ("don't know nothing" ...etc).

He proved that the double negative had been used in normal English for hundreds of years prior to the invention of the 'rules' of English. In his opinion, the local dialect wasn't 'bad' English - it was correct English that had been preserved in the face of upper class attempts to dominate his local culture. Furthermore, he suggested that if I didn't like it I could bog off back to Cheshire.

I also used to enjoy a chuckle at some of the 'Americanisms' that are so clearly incorrect. That was until I found out that some (but not all) are close to the usage common in Shakespeare's time.

Rulez Shmoolz. - keep English alive.

To quote Humpty Dumpty:

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I chose it to mean—nothing less, and nothing more."

And Alice

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

4eyes

9:19 pm on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Do people say "markwis" in the UK?

No - not in the case of Marquis de Sade.

added:
Perhaps the few with a confused education who think the Marquis de Sade was an English character.

ShootinBlanks

11:08 pm on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

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ek cetera and joolery

isitreal

6:48 pm on Jun 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

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4eyes, we agree on something, that's nice to see.

Languages are fluid, that's how they grow and develop. All good writers know this perfectly well, all poets too, and create what they need when they need it, sometimes it catches on, sometimes it doesn't.

as Celine says... you can't fall into those traps.. makes for boring reading... stiff... you know, cart before the horse and all that...

lawman

6:58 pm on Jun 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I've said it over and over again in various forums on this board, and it bears repeating:

I is a college graduate.

4eyes

2:15 am on Jun 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Lets not forget, Shakespeare invented a lot of words that are now in common usage.

If I appear to use a word incorrectly, rest assured, it is not ignorance. I am just following in Shakespeare's footsteps.

We 'greats' are like that - rules are for normal people.

paybacksa

2:31 am on Jun 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Argue language all you like, but it's the math that irks me. Last I checked:

99.99999999999999% (or more) of people

means a small fraction of one person on this earth agrees with TheDoctor. Geesh... lighten up and give in Dude! You're wayyyyy outnumbered!

4eyes

2:36 am on Jun 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

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means a small fraction of one person on this earth agrees with TheDoctor.

That'll be me then. I agree with him 6.53%.

bpresent

6:18 am on Jun 17, 2004 (gmt 0)



A bit late on the subject I know, but my favourite is

...and if you don't like that I'm sorry!

which is usually quite the opposite to an apology.

I also like IMHO in forums such as WebmasterWorld. Who ever expresses a humble opinion in WebmasterWorld?

paybacksa

4:51 pm on Jun 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

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on a related note... I can't stand to hear " it's just my opinion but blah blah blah..."

Why is your opinion not worthy?

4eyes

5:19 pm on Jun 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

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..and people who call you on the phone and start the conversation by saying 'Hi, its only me'.

yeah - like who else would it be?

Leosghost

6:34 pm on Jun 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

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märkwis damnit, märkwis! ;) Okay, so maybe I still feel compelled to mention it... ;)

desolé mon garçon... mais on dit marquis comme "mahkee"..je sais car ..**Cest Français**...et j'habite ici depuis des bails et je parle assez bien le "lingo" ..mais en plus j'en ai 2 dans ma famille..

Only the English say.. märkwis...

We have them in Ireland too .."mahkee's" that is since the time of "Guillaume le conquerant" who was actually second generation Viking ...but gave us the Anglo Norman Aristocracy ...which means some of us get a "de" in the name just like the French use ...

"usually signifies that ones ancestor was a bigger crook than average for their time or had a more fetching colour of woad"...

or did SEO in Heraldics ..;)

Problem is Americans and Brits think we're French when they see the "de"...

BTW ...hope the diversion into dialect above can be understood ...

for the linguistically challenged ...translation follows ..
"Sorry kid ..but yer say it like Mahkee..I know cos its French 'n' I live 'ere since donkey's''n speak it pretty good ..'sides which I got 2 Mahkees in me fambly .."
...
Clear? ...Good! ....

Ps. Yes I know there are some grammatical errors in my foregoing French ..if it was exact you wouldn't get the sense of it at all ...and only the Quebecois speak "real" French anyway ..

2oddSox

6:45 pm on Jun 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

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4eyes wrote:
I once had an argument with a Lancashire chap about the use of double negatives ("don't know nothing" ...etc).

Shouldn't that be..."don't know nuffink?"

(followed up by, "I'm not being funny like, but ya know wot I mean?")

4eyes

7:26 pm on Jun 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Leosghost

I mentioned this in msg #:47

He's not biting ;)

willybfriendly

7:38 pm on Jun 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

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which is usually quite the opposite to an apology.

Rather far afield from the original post now, but I'll bite on this. Other "non"-apologies that get my goat:

"I am sorry if you were offended" (How can you apologize for my feelings? Conditional apology!= real apology)

"I didn't mean to upset you, but..." (The "but" is an eraser that wipes out the beginning of the sentence - virtually always)

WBF

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