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A 14-year-old Travis County girl who said she was sexually assaulted by a Buda man she met on MySpace.com sued the popular social networking site Monday for $30 million, claiming that it fails to protect minors from adult sexual predators......Attorneys general from five states, including Texas, have asked MySpace.com to provide more security, the lawsuit said. Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott sent a letter to the MySpace.com chief executive officer May 22, asking him to require users to verify their age and identity with a credit card or verified e-mail account...
...Lauren Gelman, associate director of the Center for Internet and Society at Stanford Law School, said she does not think MySpace is legally responsible for what happens away from its site.
Damn! Watch this one. May have huge implications for user generated content sites.
[edited by: engine at 4:32 pm (utc) on June 20, 2006]
[edit reason] Added quote to link [/edit]
I don't see how this can be implemented in the internet world.
So if you don't know how to do it we just forget about it right?
I can't tell the difference between a real and a fake ID so I just stop checking them, right?
I don't see how this can be implemented in the internet world.
So if you don't know how to do it we just forget about it right?
OK! how about 'it is not possible to implement it in the online world'.
I can't tell the difference between a real and a fake ID so I just stop checking them, right?
Didn't say that. I'd keep checking and keep asking but if you deliberately go against what I tell you (i.e. lie on you age, meet someone offline), don't blame me.
You are missing the point. As VVV said it is not a matter of what can or cannot be done. If there is an element of risk that cannot be removed then the service should not be permitted. Just like the bar that persistently serves minors they should lose their license.
I don't believe I am missing the point. There is an element of risk to everything you do. Where do you draw the line? Cars are the number one cause of death in children. There is a tremendous risk in putting your child in a car. I would be willing to bet that playgrounds, community parks, amusement parks and swimming pools run the exact same risk of having your child identified by a perv. Should they be closed too?
The bar analogy is not the same because serving minors is illegal. Running a community website is not.
There is a dangerous assumption running through some of the messages in this thread and that is that if something cannot be done for technical reasons on the Internet then that is OK. It most certainly is not OK. With respect to the law and protection of minors, the Internet should be forced to comply like the rest of us.
My assumption is that it is 100% wrong for someone to rape a child, but I don't feel it is the fault of the communication devise. The internet did not force this girl to give the guy her phone number. The phone company is not responsible when the girl made the plans to meet the guy after school. The car they drove to his apartment is not responsible for her rape. The alleged rapist is at fault.
What laws are your referring to that everyone complies with that the internet does not?
99% of chat lines are there for one reason and one reason only and that is profit. They are not created by adults to provide a useful service to kids. They are created to generate profit (that's why Rupert Murdoch paid $580M for Myspace). They are not essential to the progress of society (and there are other more sociable things that kids could be doing you know).
So if someone makes a profit it is not acceptable or useful? Wow, I guess Disney is evil because I assure you they are making money. 99% of the acceptible social outlets cost money and provide profit for the companies. Movies - $10.00, Sports teams - $1000.00, Museums - $5.00, Swimming pools - $10.00, voice lessons - even girl scouts. Very little in life is free or not profit driven.
In conclusion I must confess that I don't know much about chat lines and online meeting places but the overall impression I get of them is "sleazy" and not the places I would like my kids to frequent, but then it takes all types.
You just admitted you don't really about online communities. I am not a fan of myspace, but it a place where kids can express creativity with their sites. If the kid is responsible they can setup their account so that no one can contact them without their approval. I belong to lots of communities like this one and others that are relative to my interests. I am sure there are some sleezy ones out there, but it is mistaken to lump them together.
Hmmm, let me go see who I can sue. I need a little extra cash. I'm going to call that "ambulance chaser" I see advertising on late night cable TV. Maybe they can help. They state that it won't cost me anything so what do I have to lose?
Little girl: Get a life and become a responsible young adult.
Little girls Mom: You get a life too and start instilling some values, what's right and wrong, etc. into your little girl.
Little boy: You should be ashamed of yourself. In fact, you're going to pay one way or the other. In the end, it's all going to be on your shoulders. Not Mom's, not the little girl and definitely not MySpace.
Do you know what they do to sex offenders in prison? Your going to be someone's "you know what". It starts with a B and you might want to prepare your backside now.
<snip>
How...How....How could have myspace prevented this?
When you have an answer let me know. I am am talking about a viable solution here not some silly idea like "call the home and ask if a parent is there"
More then stopping kids from signing up how do you stop adults from posing as children to arrange meeting places.
There is one rule online that if broken you can't be surprised if it goes bad and the rule is this:
Never ever give your city.... last name.... any contact info what so ever and DO NOT ARRANGE TO MEET WITH SOMEONE YOU MET ONLINE! PERIOD! EVER!
I am not ignarant... my eyes are wide open. I write code to run over the net.. everyday... all day and I have yet to see a solution to this problem. There were attempts, like adult pass, and other things that required you to sign up and jump through some hoops to get an internet pass, but none of these worked.
I would just like someone to tell me how Myspace failed to protect this girl, I would like someone to explain where they were neglegent. We should all be afraid if they successfully sue Myspace. Very afriad... even you BeeDee.
BeeDee <snip> I am honestly intreged by your assertion that Myspace is at fault here and I would like to to explain to me why you think this is Myspaces fault.
[edited by: lawman at 4:43 pm (utc) on June 23, 2006]
Force?
i.e. Legislation.
While I would love to elaborate on that, I feel that doing so would get way to philosophical and off-topic to the point where my post would be modded out anyway :-).
Anyway, in Canada this stuff will be legal soon:
"Canada plans to raise age of consent to 16 (from 14)"
"But the proposal, first outlined in April, will also allow youngsters to have consensual sex with people up to five years older or younger, even if that means one partner is aged 14 or 15.
Uhhh. Not just legal soon, but it's legal now for a consenting 14 year old. Some have said in this thread that a 14 year old can't consent to sex, but Canada believes that one can. There are other countries as well.
From some net sources: It's 12 in Mexico.
In Iowa, United States - as low as 14 for anyone who is less than 5 years of age apart; and as low as 12 years of age under marriage.
In Missouri, United States - If one is over 18 but under 21, the age of consent is 14. If one is over 21, one may not have sexual intercourse with anyone under 17.
I personally don't think 14 is the right number to pick, but there are places / people that do.
As far as reports that the 19 year old is joining the lawsuit, is that even real? It sounds completely crazy. The news report that I read said:
A 14-year-old girl who says she was sexually assaulted by another user of MySpace.com sued the social networking Web site Monday...
Sexual assault is a crime in some form regardless of age. Someone also pointed out that we don't exactly know what these two particular children / people told each other their ages were. This is a really long thread considering the lack of specifics cited and facts in dispute.
Where their young eyes wander, lawsuits, excessive regulation, and entanglements with the law seemingly always follow. It's only getting worse.
The responsibility for safeguarding minors online will soon be legislatively shifted to webmasters like us. It *will* happen, sooner or later. Parents, well, they're too busy doing other things. Suddenly, it's up to us to make sure children are kept safe and clean online.
For every misguided lawsuit, for every draconian piece of legislation, for every senseless entanglement with the law, I pray there be 10,000 children who still end up being harmed as a result of what is ultimately the REAL danger: the neglect of their own parents.
More minors are starved, psychologically traumatized, sexually abused, and otherwise mistreated by their *own* parents (world wide) than by random strangers who they might encounter and later meet on some social networking website.
But anyway, the lesson for us webmasters is to continually adapt to whatever legislative and/or business environment we're presented with.
BeeDee I don't want to get in a fight over this with you I am honestly intreged by your assertion that Myspace is at fault here and I would like to to explain to me why you think this is Myspaces fault.
Don't worry, I am too old for fighting.
[edited by: lawman at 4:44 pm (utc) on June 23, 2006]
You have still yet to give a reason that Myspace is at fault or how they are liable at all. <snip>
[edited by: lawman at 4:45 pm (utc) on June 23, 2006]
There is only ONE person responsible for this MySpace ado, and that is the guy. Legislative efforts over the last two decades have been aimed specifically at the behaviour he performed. Did he think he was special and the laws don't apply to him? Or is he a single minded moron who thinks with the wrong head? Either way, it's his responsibility to act in a responsible manner.
Teenage boys and girls will always push the envelope. We did it when I was a teenager. My daughter did it. Her son will probably do it. That's an almost natural process of growing up. We test the waters. If we are lucky we don't get harmed in the process.
[edited by: grandpa at 3:51 pm (utc) on June 23, 2006]
Hey, that's me! :D
If we are lucky we don't get harmed in the processA lot of children do end up being harmed. It is never their fault and it is a trajedy. This situation obviously requires that many people step and be responsible, for a change. One could hypothesize about parenting or education or social skills or unfetterd access to the web until he were blue in the face, and never find one among them to be held liable except the perpetrator. The responsibilty is shared by everyone else, each doing their part to help ensure the safety of children, or at least one would suppose. I feel bad for that girl, but if she ever gets as much as a dime for sneaking out, I'll start yelling that the sky is falling. Mom and daughter ought to be thinking about taking care of themselves for this one time.
Here's the deal, plain and simple. You give kids access to the world and they are going to explore it. In my day, my world was a lot more limited. It rarely went any farther than the beer store out on the edge of town. In my kids day, I made sure she had something better to do than run off to the beer store... or any other place I didn't approve of.
Something on a piece of property that attracts children but also endangers their safety.
Myspace fits that description precisely because it attracts children, and in some cases, endangers them, because there are no safeguards to prevent them from sharing private info. (I don't think it's possible to do so, but that doesn't change the fact that MySpace completely fails to protect minors from predators.)
Note that I'm not advocating government action (more laws); but, if MySpace continues to ignore the problem, I see massive civil actions closing it down forever. Another two words for you: "Deep Pockets"
The big <snip> question is to me, how <snip> do I continue with my forum site? How do I <snip> protect my <snip> site? Otherwise, I will have a <snip> lawyer on my <snip> case, whenever they get upset for something. Any <snip> suggestions?
Otherwise, I will have a <snip> lawyer on my <snip> case, whenever they get upset for something. Any suggestion?
So, <snip>, <snip> for <snip>... But <snip> the <snip> on <snip> for <snip>. So <snip> it!
:)
(I love that snip thing...)
But seriously - what is a forum owner to do? Even a threat of a lawsuit can put not just the site, but a webmaster out of living...
Since the lawsuit was announced Myspace announced some new features that they were adding that were to help "protect" children.
Do we now have to follow suit? Things they are doing are small things that can all be circumvented if a child really wants to meet a stranger and if a stranger wants to meet a child, but they are still doing it.
This is exactly what I was worried about, a lawyer and some uneducated parent are going to be defining what we can and can't do on our sites.
Not lawmakers, not people who specialize in websites, just a ambulance chasing styled lawyer and some mother who can't even raise her own child now get to tell webmasters in the USA what they can and can't do.
I don't know what American webmasters are going to do all I know is that no-one here seemed to want to discuss that over parenting issues. So I am glad I am in Canada where this won't affect me as quickly but I am guessing it won't take too long to cross over here.
I figure in 3-5 years if this lawsuit is successful then we are all going to have to do a little dance for the lawmakers when setting up anything where people can interact on a website. Forums, Blogs, online communities will all be subject to child protection reviews and fines could even be instituted to pay for enforcement and investigating costs.
If I could talk to Myspace and offer money to fight hard and tell them to stand their ground I would. I really hope they do take on this lawsuit. I don't want this women to get 1 penny over this, as any judgement will put us all on a very slippery slope.
Also there is nothing harful about a forum. Examples given were:
"unfenced swimming pools, open pits, farm equipment and abandoned refrigerators"
I can't fall into a forum, I can't get trapped inside, it can't cut off my arm..... and so on.
That would be like saying Hotmail is attractive to kids but is harmful becuase of spam, what if someone gets an unsolicited email in hotmail, then responds and ends up meeting the person and getting raped, is hotmail now an "attractive nuisance"?
Again a very slippery slope when we start applying physical world logic to a virtual world.
