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Worst update: Nov 2001?
3rd, 4th, ort 5th: Florida?
Altavista: Too many urls Dec 1998 (?)
Altavista: Black Monday, August 1999
Excite: Density tweak (Dec 1997)?
Inktomi: Over submission update Spring 98 (?)
[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 7:25 pm (utc) on Dec. 2, 2003]
that if we SEO'ers followed the G guidelines we would be OK.
Even if he did say it, it doesn't mean it is true. SEOs need to stop believing that Google, and therefore GoogleGuy, is out to help....and that they like SEOs.
How easy is that? Tell SEOs to abide by your "guidelines" or "rules", they change their sites according to them, and then you can easily nail them all.
>> This one is dramatic though. Behavior modification.
Toolman, this one hits home. When GoogleGuy posts this...
>> Personally, I think a user who just types in cheeseburger might want information on how many calories are in a Burger King cheeseburger, or a Wendy's cheeseburger, etc. Or they're having a BBQ and would like to cook the perfect cheeseburger and would like a recipe.
And then I look at the this update, that's what I see. I believe this is the beginning of a major shift. Regular SERPS focusing on information and AdWords/Froogle focused on e-commerce.
If this turns out to be true, than Florida takes the prize. from an SEO point of view only
[edited by: mona at 9:21 pm (utc) on Dec. 2, 2003]
Not a baddie for SEOs, just a busy one on WebmasterWorld...
Worst update: Nov 2001?
As a webmaster personally, yep. Main site banned for a year and a half after that one. Barely survived (thanks to MSN, though after it dropped Direct Hit last year took another kick in the shorts). After being reinstated on G sometime around Dominic, site just keeps getting stronger through Esmeralda and now Florida (and all the mini-tweaks in between), and so far so good through stemming implementation (give me another week and I might be crying a different story).
Site wasn't around for Excite in '97 but did okay through the AV and Ink updates in '98 & '99.
Definitely November 2001.
I remember many people back then saying stuff like "Google is broken" "They are stuffed" etc etc. Seems like, in this industry built on change, every time actual change happens, people panic. I think you would be hard pressed to find any Google update recently that didn't engender this sort of response, and perspective is not something that is likely to come easy to most people here.
BTW, can I ask why Florida isn't included on this list [webmasterworld.com]?
The other search is for some equipment we're trying to find info on before we buy. I tried every variation I could think of on Google, but didn't get a single useful result back. All I got were other companies who provide a service which uses this equipment, but no mention on the pages of the equipment itself.
I tried out AV 'coz I'd read here that it was hugely improved and I was really surprised by the difference in the results. Every single result was spot on with what I was looking for... I was actually quite shocked by that :) So the pages I wanted are out there but Google doesn't seem to know that.
So far as our own sites go I'd say Nov 2001 was the scariest as two sites went completely from the index and I thought they were gone for good - luckily though they came back in the next update. So far Florida and Dominic have been identical (freakily so) for our sites with the same sites moving a little up or a little down and two (not the two we lost in 2001) falling to around 800. These two both clawed their way back up after Dominic so I'm living in hope they'll do it again....
So - for searches unrelated to our own sites: Florida = worst,
for our own sites... maybe Nov 2001? I'll see how it goes...
I don't have the years everyone else has at doing this. What am I doing that is so right?
This update is so different. I have no clue why we have been dumped. If we did something wrong, hey Google, include it in your "what not to do" list and we wont!
I'm looking in my referrer logs and see Google searchers visiting my site just to find that they wasted their time (and my bandwidth).
I used to be found for majorkeywords + any_secondary_keyword1 + any_secondary_keyword2 etc....
Now my majorkeyword listings is almost gone and I am basically found on the secondary words and phrases, which is totally misleading without being in connection with one of my major keyword.
Florida is the worst ever. As far as I see it, nothing has even been close to this disaster!
Do "Changes in technology" count as updates? ::)
Most WebmasterWorld'ers weren't around before Google started it's climb to the top.. But you and I can remember many tech changes in crawling/indexing patterns over the years.
Infoseek eliminating the 10 minute index.
AV implementing "rotated" results (After everyone figured out how to beat the "site popularity" algo)
Though I still feel AOL completely changing indexes from Excite to Ink (In my mind it was an update... :)), was the biggest hit we ever took.......
Inktomi eliminating deep crawling in '99 was another technology change that took a big adjustment to overcome.
Those are some of the big technology changes in the engines I remember over the last 6 years.. (Have we really been doing this that long? :)
If we are voting on just updates of existing indexes (same SERP's provider), then the AV - 2001 update would be my vote...
Well, it seems everyone still wants to comment on the last update alone. We are trying to put this all in perspective, that it is just another in a long history of se updates that have left webmasters wanting
If we are talking from the seo point of view it depends on what kind of site you are talking about. I don't see any real difference in how information sites are doing at least in topics that aren't very commercial. So the damage has been done mostly to small commercial sites.
From the point of view of the searcher I see no difference when I am simply looking for information but looking for something I want to buy or find out more before I buy has been an exercise in frustration over the last few days. This could hurt Google's reputation. But then where else would people turn?
I'd say AV was a far bigger disaster. Florida will turn out to just be another "the sky is falling" episode like others we've been through. This is not to minimize how devastating it is for many small businesses
PS - Florida is a boy's name? What a terrible thing to do to a kid!
It seems the intent was to eliminate a lot of spammy datafeed results, but the outcome has been a definite loss of relevancy. They threw the baby out with the bath water, and unwittingly (?) made it appear to be a $$ grab via increased Adwords revenue.
I've actually been using Alltheweb since the update. Their results are actually more relevant than google's for the searches I've been doing.
Regardless if this statement is true or false, the perception is valid.
<<Hopefully, everyone will wake up and realize that no search engine is your friend. If you have spent any time even thinking about how you might rank higher without paying money to the search engine, you are the enemy and you will be irradicated.>>
and i thought u guys were censored in what u could say ;)
<<Because it launched on the day we launched our Florida conference. We needed a male name with F and Florida Fit. We'd had one in midsummer that was a False start that we named Fritz, but it never materialized - so we went with Florida.
...2 seos and a se tech getting off a bus...>>
brett for non commercial(searches) side of the update "florida" is such an apt name, however for the commercial side wouldnt "Daisey Cutter" been better as that is what they dropped.
<<Or, to speak googlish, nuked targeted quality spam in favour of untargeted lowkey spam.>>
It started with black October 2002 when Yahoo dumped its directory results from its SERPs, giving Google even more power. Okay relevancy was improved but many paying customers saw their traffic decimated overnight. Then more recently, MSN introduced their geo-targeting which has affected some much worse than others, but for us in the UK, we've taken a 10 - 20% hit from the loss of MSN.com traffic on most websites. And now we have Florida which has caused such an uproar, the likes of which I have never seen. While Brett is correct about the relative impact on rankings being less than previous updates, the total impact of Florida has been far far greater than anything previously, simply becuase of Google's huge market share now, and the way the Web is now.
So it's Florida by a country mile, IMO.
Florida is by far the worst update for all commercial sites I'm invloved with.
I agree with those who say that Google have applied the "money making" filter to searches. How long until Google start showing sponsored results?
It most likely can be measured in increased dollars/per user through adwords revenue.
<added/>The best strategy for the future may very well be forgetting everything you know about ranking and looking as stupid as you can.
Lesson learned (egg's in one basket lecture, too many and too bad doorways lecture, etc.)
Florida was not that bad for me, some pages vanished others gained position, all in all not that bad.
joined:Feb 8, 2002
I pray that Google wakes up before this update becomes the beginning of demise ...
Infoseek (sorry date illudes me) when they
stopped the "automatic instantaneous submission
and immediated results" proceedure... and of
course... the Altivista "keep clicking" the damn
URL you own until your fingers bleed dry trick...
Oh gosh.. am I dating myself?
Guacomole' if it's green it's still good.
But just a thought...
If, indeed, this is the G=oogle to force
I sort of remember something in the "sales" business..
and I think it was called "Bait and Switch."
Maybe this is the other side of the coin of
the pay to have your site crawled and mysteriously
get better placement scheme....
So others can be spared the trouble of insulting me
this was my responce to "it."
(edited out leading sarcasm)
I live in an area that is beautiful but, as far as how
"society" treats their underprivileged... it is third world.
Luckily the brothers and I have raised ourselves out of poverty
by hard work and not welfare so common in the big city
where jobs are plentiful, but people are too lazy and the welfare
check is an easy grab at the liberal ticket on the voting booth.
When we raised ourselves out of poverty..... the local society
had to find "slave" labor somewhere else...
They found Ireland. We had lots of hard working, honest, and
decent Irish folk grace our land... only to be exploited as we were.
Except they couldn't walk, take the bus, or SWIM home to get
out of their indentured service. Working two, three, and sometimes
four jobs, living 5 and 6 to a room.... and at the end of their service,
going back to Ireland broke after being mislead of "prosperty" in
America. After 4 years the word finally got back to Ireland
they were getting a raw deal, and thank GOD, the Irish economy
has improved greatly they no longer "needed" to come to America
to get screwed. This is all during the 1990's.
Now we are screwing over the impoverished, (Poland, Chec, Boz)
block.... Oh yeah... it ain't me screwin' over the brothers, Irish, third world,
or otherwise. I can guarantee you that.
AND yes I know this isn't a place for this... but don't ever call
ME a racist.
I sort of remember something in the "sales" business..I remember it from college. First they offer you a taste, knowing that once you had a line you would have to buy some.
and I think it was called "Bait and Switch."
At least that's what my friends told me;)
We had one maybe two before...now there are
10- or so...
Success for G=oogle!
Bait and Switch... pure and simple.
Of course the fist 8 or 9 are totally meaningless.
and... I was sort of wondering... just recently
the engines had to disclose that some listing are ads...
How about.... we changed our algorithm so that according
to our original disclosure on how to play the game we
weren't generating any revenue.... So now you must
pay to play on the first or second or third page...
Hmmmm.... sure sounds like bait and switch.
And sort of wondering again....
Has anybody tossed around the "monopoly" "oligopoly" word
lately? If Ya and AV.... and Goo were all looking
the same.. and yah-dah-yah-da... Y=ahoo has piece of Goo..
and Ya was just like Gooo... and AV ... are all looking the
same... maybe there is something else about
the search engine train we are watching...
(hey... just trying to use all that 'scoolin and cypherin from colledge.'
Actually... what I see plain and simple is a push of "information sites"
over "commercial sites"... so as to squeeze "commercial sites" into
paying for placement. Number 10 adwords is a major commercial site that has bounced into oblivion...
So.. will the Goo move to this hierarchy go to Ya and AV etc...
Follow, lead, or get in with pay.
Of couse the Dewey Decimal system will never come to the search engine..
but... before the net... and most of everybody... it was called a Phone Book,
rather the yell=ow pages... commercially. Would there be logic in the comparison of placing ads in a phone book... and how to generate ads in the search engine... I know I've turned a lot of pages in the phone book to find the right guy to flush the toilet.
Have a nice day!
[edited by: Chalupee at 1:34 am (utc) on Dec. 4, 2003]