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Worst update: Nov 2001?
3rd, 4th, ort 5th: Florida?
Altavista: Too many urls Dec 1998 (?)
Altavista: Black Monday, August 1999
Excite: Density tweak (Dec 1997)?
Inktomi: Over submission update Spring 98 (?)
[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 7:25 pm (utc) on Dec. 2, 2003]
This is the first one that has actually REDUCED the quality of the index. For countless searches the returns are now very poor in comparison. That is unique.
I suppose the other difference is that it has adversely hit so many of those who have followed the search engine's (Google's) guidance and advice to the letter in terms of approach. The betrayal factor is therefore new and significant, IMHO.
Earlier this evening, I did a search for that popular infomercial product Widget. The number one spot belonged to the Widget company (at least Google got that right), but the number two spot was a site that advertised itself as "the alternative to Widget" Widget was mentioned three or four times on their whole site, but because they had a lot of links, they apparently deserve to be number two on the Widget keyword. The third site was a broken link. The rest of the first page of results was populated by pages that were nothing more than lists of links.
I wonder if Google's popularity has less to do with quality and more to do with that the average user doesn't know where else to go anymore.
Florida hit a few index pages of sites targeting very competitive phrases but all in all most of our sites are still doing OK. We have focused on obtaining rankings for a wide range of less competitive phrases in addition to the main ones, these are still doing as well as ever even if in some cases the main keywords are not.
Ya, that update by AV affected EVERYONE where florida and some of the other updates affected just a few. Florida has to go down to #2 at least and probably #3.
> realize that no search engine is your friend.
Anyone who sends me referrals in this day-and-age of the net is my friend.
> Google Nov 2001? (remember with the link farms?)
Right rmccollom! I get "update blind" after awhile. I'll update date that date above. Thanks.
> rationale behind deciding
Number of sites affected in relation to the number of sites listed.
Whereas Florida has affected a bunch of sites that are quite vocal, I honestly don't think percentage wise, Florida ranks up there - probably even in the top five.
Although there is alot to criticize with this update, I have some sympathy for Google on this one. They are getting piled on somewhat unjustly on this one (hence this thread to try to put it into perspective).
> Black Monday
That was different that "too many urls". If you surf back in the old AV forum to some of the early posts about altavista, you will find that much of WebmasterWorld was born on Black Monday.
That is a different update than "too many urls" filter and the ransom note submission page.
> 80-95% of the previous sites in the top 100 are gone
In alot of sectors (tech especially) you can't even tell there was an update. We pull from about 100k unique kw's a month here on WebmasterWorld, and most of those didn't budge an inch up or down. I literally would not have known there was an update if I didn't read it here on WebmasterWorld - average daily referrals right now, are up 5% over a month ago (but that is to be expected with normal growth).
> quickest deterioration of quality I have seen
It is soooo specific though - down to the keyword, that I have a hard time trying to apply that to all of Google. Where as the cross linking thing, nuked alot of sites. So did the big PR0 purges.
In alot of sectors (tech especially) you can't even tell there was an update.
I have to agree with you on this Brett, I have a couple of personal sites in the tech sector and have not seen any sign of an update, at work though in the travel industry 3 sites got hammered and replaced with sites that belong in the property market!
You live and learn :)
I think there is nary a commercial category that is unaffected, and in those categories it is quite common for 80-95% of the sites from the top 100 to have been shunted.
On top of that, eCommerce is almost double what it was in the AV days and more than half again as large as in the Nov 2001 update.
So, if we are measuring economic impact, I think this has to rank as the biggest.
If we are ranking total impact on all searches, I would agree with your analysis.
As others have pointed out, it depends on the measuring stick.
P.S. I think there are two other factors working on the reason this update's critics have been so vocal. One is the feeling of betrayal, as many of the shunted sites seem to be 100% within Google's guidelines. The other is that Google is the only game in town right now. According to the stats of a very well-known individual around here, a certain not-to-be-named site that all of us love gets 96.75% of its search referrals from Google/Yahoo/AOL, all of which deliver these new results. No other search engine has ever been capable of having such a significant economic impact by its dominance combined with the ever-increasing size of the market it impacts.
This one is bad ... but doesn't hold a candle to that one!
This time they just took out our ecomm sites and left the infomation sites. at least while we rebuild this time we can redirect the infomation sites to the ecomm stuff, in some areas now cloaking is all there is left mixed in with newspapers and amazon sites.
Google has been great for me, both with results in the past and with Adsense. I continue to use Adwords (although, obviously, my costs have gone up since the update)
It's just a real shame that while this update has cleared some Spam, many small company listings have been kicked out as well.
With every search -showmetherealresults .....
I just conducted a workshop yesterday with 20 or so marketing pro's for SE visibility and SEO while developing their content with their established content management tool.
Asked the question what SE hey prefer in their daily lives G came out 100%.
Asked if they had noticed any changes quite recently, answer 100% NO.
They represent 5 major industries (specialty chemicals), 20 sub industries (from beauty, health care and textiles to plastics, pigments, coatings and additives and beyond) - AND they are web content developers with main jobs in marketing, use the web all the time.
Guess who notices ANY impact of Florida out there:
1. Group Webmasters
2. Group Webmasters
Last Group Webmasters
Nobody gives hoots about it, this is the honest and shocking truth.
No games, just reality folks. G will not be harmed a bit for any of these updates and adjustments. Users are as happy as can be, go figure, adjust and live on.
Now for a dumb question (and yes i have gone back over the past threads) why was this update called 'Florida'? Is it because of some data center in florida, or is that just the name that was picked?
(I live in florida, hence my confusion. makes it feel like the 2000 elections all over again)
<= Look at the date I joined WW - coincidence? I visited, I lurked - I joined - just like everyone else.
Hey Brett - what was the date I joined the supporters forum?
October 25th is a 'reminder' date.
Who said "those who ignore the past, are destined to repeat it"?
The problem is that Google not only produced lots of collateral damage. The problem is they ditched tons of targeted seo'ed sites in favour of untargeted seo'ed sites. Or, to speak googlish, nuked targeted quality spam in favour of untargeted lowkey spam.
I need to get more up to date on these things. Pthth.
Yes the florida update sucked, no im not worried about it because i know google is going to change it, and yes i think big companies didnt notice any change in their traffic because they are, well, BIG COMPANIES.
thats my piece.