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Is there anything the webmaster for a new page can do to get loads of links without "having tons of people link to you naturally."
It sounds like there's not much you can do beyond that, so is SEO dead, meaning is getting great results from SEO not going to happen any more as sophisticated engines (google) either grow larger or their abilities spread to other engines?
Overall, I'm just looking for some expectations of SEO.
Conclusion - there are techniques that work, though they are far more subtle than they were just a couple of years ago.
WBF
Can bots spider flash? Well technically they can, but they don't yet. Can bots OCR text in image files, no. Until this is completed along with a slue of other issues, SEO will be alive and well. And until that happens there will be a new type of media that the spiders can not get to that someone is using, hence, they will not be found.
So until bots can gather any form of data on any site regardless of the multiple options and index it all, SEO will be alive.
SEO only became successful because it was able to exploit weaknesses in the algos of the early search engines and directories (looksmart to av to excite to y! and odp to early years of google) as they developed and were tested.
The golden age of SEO ceased several years back as Se's have become more sophisticated.
SEO will always survive but it is not the opportunity it used to be. There is not much more (though there are some serious exceptions but again these are mainly short term and have to be continually revised) to optimizing for SE's now than there has always been for publishing any documents off or on line - descriptive titles, summaries, structure, usability/readability, citation and links to/from other documents (that happens in books and off line media too!), etc etc...
I always expect basic SEO to be central to our web promotion, but its not the short term opportunity afforded to entrepreneurs 5 to 7 years ago.
-webwoman
This statement is the bottom line, SEO is no longer simple, but can achieve fantastic results if sufficient effort is applied. Having been around for a while I have to say that in the early days SEO was very easy, but on the other hand traffic and competition were also very low.
Some engines, like Inktomi, are still as simple as falling off a log to manipulate. Google is much more difficult, but who is to say that Google will continue to have 70% of the SE market? Yahoo will most likely switch, and I look forward to the first MS in-house offering as I'm sure it will have many flaws that can be exploited.
Smaller engines like Ask, AV, ATW and Teoma are very simple to manipulate, if only they generated more traffic SEO would be the hottest industry on the block....but, it is far from cold.
If I were to abandon SEO and switch to Google Adwords the cost would be about $100K per month for the same traffic level, and make most of my sites borderline profitable. The effort required to make SEO work is definitely still very viable.
SEO will only be dead when all engines are PPC for at least the first 3 pages....that will be a rainy day for everyone....but may happen in the future (several years away IMHO).
The sun is still shining....make some SEO hay :)
People are looking for stable sources of traffic, and looking for guidance and direction. The question is: where does straight_out SEO stop and entering into other areas of internet marketing consulting begin?
What about the site that gets plenty of traffic but isn't converting? Is the SEO's job finished at that point, or is it just beginning?
SEO is a continous study. This is because Google is continously making it's algorithms better and better to get better results and NOT JUNK.
Even today, most of use Google.com ONLY for their Search Requirements. Isn't it! How can SEO be DEAD if the work done is fair!
But it's also true that there aren't loopholes as there were a couple of years ago, and there's no longer any "quick fix".
Yet it's precisely *because* of this latter point that SEOs are needed -- if only to advise other companies on how to put together effective sites.
I see the future of the SEO role as being a consultative one, rather than (just) a hands-on one.
Last week I spoke with a new client - really big company. They told me they would know everything to make their pages visible in search engines.
So I asked them about a small example - all their pages have headlines looking like H1, but are like this:
<p class="headline">Companyname - at home all over the world</p>
I asked: Why did you use p tag and class="headline"?
They explained me - very proud - that using CSS was a trick to do better in SE's.
I was speechless :)
Now I'm figuring out how to convince them that they need help, for clean HTML at least. And also "at home all over the world" might be a top selling proposition if it comes up in SERPs by accident ;)
[edit]typo[/edit]
There's a lot of work out there and companies are taking SEO very seriously at the moment - which means that the fees you can command are much larger. If you know what you're doing there's £££ to be made.
It's just that a number of SEO agencies tell prospective clients "you can't get that keyword without PPC".
I know that's not true.
So do the clients I work with.
Please help in the future by continuing this "SEO is dead" equation....
It only does me favours.
Keep up the good work.
Glyn.
...and $$$ and €€€ and...
Albert, you should ask them three things:
- how do you do your offline marketing for your products and services
- do you research your target markets for supply and demand?
- why don't you do it for your online market?
This is how you could start showing them a couple of nice examples where they miserably "optimize" into the wrong direction...the rest is math and selling your skills.
In conclusion to this interesting discussion: online content will have to be MARKETED, like in the offline world. And there will have to be tools and techniques applied to achieve maximum exposure of your products (content) to your potential clients (web user).
Large firms have just started to publish their brochures and technical data sheets online. They now need to understand and learn how to get their online marketing in shape to succeed and achieve maximum ROI.
There is one demand growing now: SEO experts need to understand much more about their client's environments to be of real value. They will have to become marketers themselves (in case asked to do the job) or marketing consultants for online content marketing (if the clients want to be educated to do it themselves).
In both new worlds there will always be $£€ tb made if you REALLY understand your client's strategy. If they don't have any, drop them and look for someone more rewarding to work for/with.
Cheers, Jens
How much time does it take you to select a site from a directory. Compare that with the amount of time it takes to search on Google. Time is money and search engines are the solutions people will be looking for to search for their requirements.
Most of the old SEOs have stopped working for others. Many of the others have Got it {enlightened} and are now into some high level stuff which will provide back end to their new ventures. Some among them have invested their money in online assets which can also act as PR Networks. They will take SEO to their next levels. If google or other engines have upgraded their algos so have the techniques used by many of the SEOs :)
So when someone says "SEO is dead" they might be implying traditional form of SEO is dead. As 4eyes says
Not dead - it just evolved to SEM
And just to give you an idea of the importance of SEO I would not be surprised if there would be Reverse SEO services available in future.
Now, only one SE has a truly respectable market share, not just globally, but in each and every national market. Recent mergers will probably create one more, but that's about it. Paying attention to others, will just increase the cost without adding much revenue.
So, the recipe today is to optimize for Google and get to know every nook and cranny of Adwords and Overture. There is still an SEO consultancy business there, but not anywhere near as demanding as it used to be, when algorithms changed quarterly and brought you back to square one.
renke, how about companies that ask you to be educated about making their content more SE friendly as they develop it and thus make themselves independent from future cash out to consultants?. Kindalike SEO-Self-Onthefly?
Jens
In my opinion, the most important role of the SEO professional is ROI. I think it's extremely important to keep track of ROI figures and weigh the cost of PPC vs. organic SEO. Some keywords just cost too much to play the PPC game, and it's worth taking the time to optimize a site and bring in organic traffic. Keeping Internet marketing costs down and increasing ROI is the true role of the SEO, and each client will have a different ROI strategy based upon industry, audience, etc.
I think SEO will always be in demand. The search engine industry is so dynamic that it's worth most clients' money to let us keep up with the changes and then pass on our recommendations.
That's what I did a lot of, charging top dollars. The thing is, that the companies often find afterwards that they haven't got anyone with sufficient time on his/her hands on their staff, so this type of consultancy tends to evolve into an hands-on thing, where you get paid X dollars to provide Y hours per month of hands-on work or additional advise for them.
I just landed such a deal with a solid value proposition for both parties. They have to understand though (and this is where your selling job kicks in) that they need to build that expertise, anyone who does not support that view would be considered a customer for an outsourced service.
Can be very rewarding, months of work, meeting tons of people, transfer your expertise into their groups, they are always very grateful and it helps to build a very solid client base.
Cheers, Jens
Some sites that do SEO also work with their clients to maximize the returns on the dollars spent with SEs. The good ones understand the business and are worth their weight in gold.
The purists seem to think it is obtaining top listings without paying money and manipulating the listings (in the nicest possible way).
I think it is obtaining top results whilst paying money and manipulating the listings (in the nicest possible way).
Others call this SEM - add PPC to the above mix and I too would call it SEM - but without PPC, surely it is still SEO and it seems to be very far from dead to me :)
Welcome to WebmasterWorld, Jarondi!
It's your first post, and you created quite a thread, congrats!
WFN :)
Jeez! And me - a former Moderator - missing that. I am truly ashamed of myself and shall now go and join my forefathers. Meanwhile, Jarondi should be able to enjoy the fact that he/she has got to be the first Newbie ever to create a thread that got top billing for the first post. Not a bad achievment and not bad start!
Most of the old SEOs have stopped working for others. Many of the others have Got it {enlightened} and are now into some high level stuff which will provide back end to their new ventures. Some among them have invested their money in online assets which can also act as PR Networks. They will take SEO to their next levels. If google or other engines have upgraded their algos so have the techniques used by many of the SEOs :)
I like the way you think :)
I'm on my own now for over 3 years. No longer doing SEO for others but definitely a major plus for my online businesses and for the first time in my life I no longer have a boss :)
Is SEO dead? Hardly, if you know what you are doing.
Cheers
