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SEO Dead? Expectations?

Is SEO dead? Expectations from SEO?

     

jarondi

4:08 am on Aug 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I've read many posts on this board portaining to SEO being "dead" or on it's way out. I'm new to SEO, and am glad that I came across this forum. What are the limitations of it, especially w/ google/google news? Most of what I've heard on here is that you can't really go beyond making a page "bot" friendly on crawlers such as google, and face large penalties if you go beyond that.

Is there anything the webmaster for a new page can do to get loads of links without "having tons of people link to you naturally."

It sounds like there's not much you can do beyond that, so is SEO dead, meaning is getting great results from SEO not going to happen any more as sophisticated engines (google) either grow larger or their abilities spread to other engines?

Overall, I'm just looking for some expectations of SEO.

3:31 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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SEO is gone for alot of people. It used to be a quick buck and now you have to work for it. That alone folds many peoples tents and sends them back to their day job.

I expect SEO to continue becoming more and more interesting over time.

4:16 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Hi! I'm new to this board.

I'm also new to the SEO topics (around 3 months).

I think we should consider the "competitiveness". My personal opinion is...

If you have a site with PR7+, SEO will give you an obvious result...coz not many PR7+'s competitors around you. (supposed they do not use SEO..)

However, if the site is PR1-4, I think you may find a lot of competitors around you using the same strategy. e.g. go to "Search Term Suggestion Tool" and then copy the keyword/phrase and paste in the site.

4:25 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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kelvinhui - welcome to you as well!

And this is exactly why you need to make them aware that they are missing the point doing so: most SEO starters don't really think in marketing terms.

This is where your expertise could kick in and support your skills by showing, teaching them how to take it to the next logical step:

Demand/Supply/Value analysis on their keywords to be brought into context to their strategy today and future.

Therefore you would have to work real close with your clients and know a lot about them.

Otherwise they can stick your SEO "service" some place else.

And this is where it's gonna get really interesting in the next couple of years, a new quality of relation.

Cheers, Jens

4:46 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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As long as there are search engines using algorithms, you will be able to optimize for them.

My vote - Not Dead

5:08 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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SEO should be renamed to "internet marketing." Search engine optimization is one skillset of internet marketing.

5:31 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I also have to vote 'Not Dead'.

I've recently optimized myself in and out of top positions in several keywords. (testing the field if you will) If SEO didn't work, I wouldn't be able to do that so easily.

-tmi

5:32 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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SEO dead? Hahaha, you got it the wrong way around mate. The business has been born!
5:57 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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It's not dead, but it's sleeping until the next Google update. Freshbot...Smeshbot...
8:52 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Dead?
Naw, better than ever! There are more customers out there than there were yesterday.

The market is growing, and getting more competitive, and as 4eyes says, now as an SEO, you have to think more broadly, as SEM to get the conversions.

8:53 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Not dead. Aging less gracefully, consolidating, morphing, but not dead. No longer a panacea or magic bullet, but still productive. And yes, you can still SE "Optimize" PPC accounts.

Months, perhaps years ago, many memebers of these fora admonished "pure" SEOS to branch out and diversify their skill sets. Those that did, will prosper.

9:52 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Bradley - Internet Marketing is too generic for my taste and it conflicts with what many large companies call their online effort.

I would vote for Online Content Marketing, that is how I try to sell the necessity to overcome this evolutionary step to just dump their bochures online but now really develop and maintain content like offline products.

My2c, Jens

10:09 pm on Aug 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I’ve been hearing SEO is dead for four years now. Luckily, no one has informed the search engines about this, as my hits today from them are higher than ever.

But relatively speaking, SEO isn’t the “quick buck” it used to be. Nowadays it takes about a month instead of a day. That's a lot of extra sweat on the hands before gettintg paid. Life's unfair to us working men and women.

3:05 am on Aug 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

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<<<<<As long as there are search engines using algorithms, you will be able to optimize for them.>>>>

you mean search engine? it used to be search engines. I think free traffic from search engines is gone and if you base your SEO on free search engines traffic you are going to have a hard time. I know some of you will jump and say "look at me" "i am number 1 on Google for whatever keyword" I am taking making a living from free traffic SEO efforts. That was possible few years ago.

3:31 am on Aug 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Adfree, point taken...thanks for the feedback...

I like to say I've involved with "Internet marketing and search engine promotion"

Internet marketing is vague in nature because it does encompass a wide variety of strategies. Posting your brochure online is just one piece of the puzzle. Marketing the brochure, partnering with other sites, adding your site to niche directories, etc. etc - that is all internet marketing.

I'd really like to tie "marketing" and "sales" into the mix. A website is a great tool for a company to provide information about its products and services, customer service issues, etc.....but more importantly, a website is a great channel for driving sales and revenue.

** Internet Marketing and Sales Specialist **

That has a ring to it.

9:05 am on Aug 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

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"Dead" or "not dead" are the wrong terms here.
In fact no promo technique has already died. They have just evolved beyond the point of "big fast bucks" making and require professional approach, time effort and whatnot...
Be it SEO, exchanges... whatever
The right terms IMO are "newly emerged, thus easily abused" and "established, thus requiring professional approach"
That's what it should be and that's good for market.
9:26 am on Aug 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

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This very intersting thread has opened a whole catalog of new questions it seems: is the term SEO really still suitable. Shouldn't we think about new terminology at all to address the new, evolving service offerings and thus create more transparency for the online community and especially for our clients and companies we work with?

I have taken the liberty to start an additional thread to this one which tries to brainstorm about options.

Thread 2758 at Forum 5 "Does the SEO industry need new denominations, terms? More transparent service descriptions needed? A brainstorm approach." [webmasterworld.com]

Anyone interested in contributing?

Best regards, Jens

10:10 am on Aug 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Well...I think survival of SEO its a pure function of the ever evolving SERP.

For example, SEO is just beginning in Korea...but then the biggest search company comes along and kills it before it get huge.

NHN (Naver), the most popular search engine in Korea and top 5 site in the WORLD....is moving away from providing ANY algo web results on its first page at all. (!) You have to pay to be on the first page of web results. (No ppc either with NHN either). I hear a few of the other big portal here are planning to go similiar routes as well. Whether this is good move for NHN in the long run is to be seen...but it certainly straight-up puts a knife in the heart of Korea SEO companies.

but its certainly something that will be a concern if it does well and the trend continues to other countries.

for now....its an truism answer: SEO is good if you can do it succesfully and get good conversion from the results.

3:50 pm on Aug 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

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while there is an WWW, with commercial and non-commercial interests jockeying for SERPs, their will always be SEO in one form or another.
4:25 am on Aug 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

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NHN (Naver), the most popular search engine in Korea and top 5 site in the WORLD....is moving away from providing ANY algo web results on its first page at all.

Has there been any public reaction to this? (Does the public understand this?) If the first page becomes regarded as overly commercial, users may go to the second page immediately. We talk now of "banner blindness" -- think there will ever be a "first page blindness"? I can imagine the threads now, with everyone vying for the #1 spot on page 2: "help, my site's in the top 10 again :("
1:19 am on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

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It is very interesting topics you guys are talking about.

3 things past, present and future - SEO yesterday is DEAD, SEO today - changing as quick as house prices, future - many things can be possible. Will we see links being monitored for the five 9s of reliability? Will/are we seeing servers needing back up scenarios to keep uptime to a maximum? I think many things could be possible, to be a serious player on the Internet you need to be the best from all angles.

BTW - Congratulations on the post, its getting a lot of views which is what these discussions are about. (This is actually my first posting so forgive me for any spelling mistakes)

My 2 pence worth is as follows....If you went into a lab and produced positive results, the theory of SEO (from a scientific angle) would be proven. My view - I am sure with the right advice/knowledge and the right amount of hard work you could build a site that would be hitting top rankings in Google.

I think if you went into a lab environment and put SEO to the test you could prove SEO works and the conclusion would be SEO is ALIVE and KICKING and the whole world would flock to get their site optimised.

Question is who has the last say in the matter? Must be the SEs themselfs......for instance if you applied the same work/optimisation process for a site that was/is paying Google over $60,000 a year for sponsorship listings (PPC), what would the results be? My feeling is yes they would be different for the following reasons:
Why would Google lose its revenue cause a sight is optimised better? The answer should be (if we beleive what Google says about this) because 'its an honest and fair' system.

Can anyone tell me if a site that is paying such money is able to reach first page rankings via optimisation? If it can't because of PPC revenue the system would appear to be flawed in which case 'it is not fair' and Google are not playing by their own rules. Has any of you knowledgable guys/gals undertaken a proper test? If so can we see the report? I am working on something right now, if my theory is correct then SEO has to work. I will post it for everyone to see. My worry about SEO is that their is no official body (well I have not seen one as of yet). Is it time all these experts with proven experience club together to make the Internet a fair place? Google has 2 things to worry about which could help stabilise the SEO market.

1. - Yahoo offer a faster service and this means their SE is more up to date. Eventually this will mean a better search engine for customers using the free search service.
It would be more relevant! - More people will use it and Yahoo will be better than Google. If this puts Googles position in danger then they should work with SEO consultants at the expense of their PPC schemes.

2. - If Google commit to PPC and SEO does not work due to the fact that the system is not fair, we will start to optimise for another engine.

Eitherway its about business. Google if you are reading this - its your move, your position could be threatend if you do not use a fair system. My last point - if it is a fair system (which it should be) then we should by definition be able to perform SEO on companies already using PPC at the expense of the search engines extra revenue. Which for me is the real parodox, hence the question - IS SEO ALIVE OR DEAD?

If anyone knows what the real answer is, can we know please?

12:23 am on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Nope. seo is not dead. At least as long as there are search engines, and money is to be made.
1:58 am on Sept 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

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sorry to open this up again...

Has there been any public reaction to this? (Does the public understand this?)

It pretty much has happened and they know. It has yet to be seen whether they care. So far...not so much. :-S

Believe it or not, there already seem to be a good deal of "natural web results blindness" on some of the portals,

one day I'll give a run down of the Korea SERP and search features, like KNOWLEDGE SEARCH (but that'd be off topic), but its a whole different world.

Some of how the SERP is set up is much much much BETTER (imo). Some of it is just plain annoying. But overall it still adds up to trouble for SEO here in Korea.

9:17 pm on Oct 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

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*COUGH*

SEO isn't dead. Case closed.

iProspect Selected to Inc. Magazine's 500 List of the Fastest Growing Companies in America; The Only Search Engine Marketing (SEM) Firm on List Ranks in the Top 10 Percent
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