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Thus increasing the click-pop of those sites.
Assuming that Yahoo does have a click-pop counter system factored into its algo, is it ethical then that a sites success is dependant (partly or largely) on a good description, when the editors of Yahoo choose that description - some of which are so poor that some sites must be doomed from the start. This may have been not such an issue with the old format, where at least you could be found in the categories (which were thrust upon searchers by virtue of that format) somewhere (discriminately IMO) alphabetically.
The 'description' element of Yahoo has been a massive talking point in these forums as many of us have suffered at the lazy pens of the editors in the past.
If, since the recent format change (where the searcher is more likely to NOT delve into the categories), click-pop is now used more heavily in the Yahoo algo, the description becomes even more important than it was before.
Oh Great!
In my most recent situation, it was the exact opposite. They gave us a decent description, but murdered our title.......but it worked out for us, so we didn't fight it.
Okay if your company is called 'blue-widgits.com' and you sell blue widgits, your in luck.
On the other hand, if your company is called 'objects-of-much-use.com' and your logo confirms this etc, you're up the creek if you sell blue widgits. I don't think they would allow the title 'blue widgits' even if that is what you sell.
But anyway, my thread isn't about titles ;) they may be a redeeming factor in some cases, but what I am saying is that the description is now more crucial than ever.
there are plenty that do - and those may be the ones that will flourish as a result.
Speaking from my own experience, when I carry out a search, and I see the search phrase (or words) I used in bold within a description, I am more likely to click on that site than one without. By doing this, I may well be driving those sites up the ranking - and everyone else and his dog may do the same.
I don't think we can learn anything from discovering who is happy, and who isn't happy with their description. We all know there are those that got a great one and those that got a crap one.
I'm trying to make a point about the implications of the new format and click-pop counting upon descriptions.
This is not a customer satisfaction survey ;) I am not an agent for Yahoo - if I was I'd be spilling all their secrets to you all right here.
Yahoo IMO is still a BIG hitter and a major source of traffic. Yet since the format change nobody appears to want to talk about it. How odd.
Putting that aside, I do think getting a good description is very possible if you know what your doing. If you submit a long description or a description that lists lots of products, its very likely they'll cut it down to almost nothing. If you submit a short and precise description that reads like a sentence rather than a list you'll have a much higher success rate.
"I thought that Yahoo insist that the title is to be the actual name of the company"
They do, and if your willing to make a few temporary changes (and forget about branding) you can use this to your advantage.
Stavs, what I was trying to say is that, we have more control over the title than the description, and the title counts more in the algo. I was suggesting that we focus on those elements that we do have some control over, and then try our best to work with more difficult elements, such as descriptions.
We know that domain name, title and category have become even more important than before. These are all factors we can work with.
Like Seth said, it IS possible to get a good description if you know what you're doing. If you don't get it, then be sure you covered your other "areas" and sites will still rank well.
I just think it's so much more beneficial for people to focus on working with Yahoo, learning how to maximize benefits from them, as opposed to focusing on what they have no control over.
Our sister site is listed in Yahoo - it has a great title and an equally great url. The description is bad in my view because it doesn't contain any keywords. The site is lying in position 29. So I am trying to learn all I can about the format change to see what I can do to elevate the site's position.
Whilst observing Yahoo recently, I came up with the idea that led to the post at the top i.e. descriptions are now more important, blah, blah.
I suppose, at the end of the day, all I am concerned about is getting into the top 10 - but I can't for the life of me work out how to do this.
Seth_Wilde, how do you know that the emphasis on click-pop has declined? I haven't seen any SERPS changes since the format change happened which would serve as an indicator.
In fact a position change is exactly what I am patiently waiting for, so I can further my observations and attempt to find a chink in the armour.
By hook or by fluke:
1) Get that keyword in the title (There was a time when web businesses would name their company after a primary keyword simply because of the importance that Yahoo! placed on it)
2) Get the keyword in the description - still important and the main talking point of this thread - when you write the description, settle for a primary key term with some sub-terms , dont stuff it with keywords and ensure that it is well written and accurate - less chance of them changing it.
3) Keyword in the Category path wont hurt
4) Keyword in the URL helps!
5) Click Popularity - Slow process but work out a method to increase your click popularity and over time, your rankings will increase.
Ive seen some siteowners include Yahoo URL's with counters on their own sites to increase click popularity. This I think is crazy!
I actually think the change started happening before this last update.
To answer your question: 6 months ago I was able to make sites jump over 300 positions in a matter of weeks by inflating their click pop.... I'm not having anything near that success rate now...
Exactly the same experience here.
In the last three months, the most that I have seen one of our listings jump has been 30 places.
The average being an improvemnt of around 6 per search phrase.
Don't shoot me down too hard, but I disagree with you entirely.
In one of the (very competitive) areas I am in, some of the worst content sites, with lousy (and I mean lousy) descriptions are at the top of the pile for the best key words in Yahoo.
Given the ferosity of competition in this particular market, there can be no other reason then click pop, and the site owners at the top, adding to that one way or another.
Maybe you could look at how you add to your own click pop, as maybe the method itself you use has been downgraded by Yahoo scripts. I am sure you are aware of IP, cache, cookie, etc. But there are other ways of them identifying new / genuine / prefered surfers, especially Yahoo. N'est pas?!
If you think about it, that fact that the top ranked sites in your industry have lousy content and descriptions actually works against your theory of Yahoo's strong use of link pop.
Lousy Description - This would make it less likely that someone would click on your listings
Lousy Content - This would make it more likely that a visitor would quickly leave your site (which would hurt your listings with traditional click pop engines).
Actually not. It seems much more logical that these sites are being given a helping hand, n'est pas?
I am sure these guys employ people using a certain ISP to click around and end on their sites (of course, they then have to delete certain files each time). I have a site at number 3 which has had the same, although limited, treatment.
The only difference is, my site was clicked differently then I presume my competitors sites were (the competitors are known to have staff who used to churn out thousands of doorway pages in the good old days, and have been around long enough to know stuff like this and read forums like this - heck, you may be one of them!! :-))
Yahoo listings are one of my great strengths. I have always done well with them, as I have followed their progress closely. I am now very confident that advanced click pop is what drives Yahoo presently / more so. But then, I will be able to tell you absolutely for sure soon (nudge nudge :-))
Again, maybe you should look at how you orchestrate your added click pop "program".
Regards
Newbie
I'm not denying click pop plays a role... I'm just saying that compared to six months ago that role has shrunk considerably...
Anyways....let us (or atleast me ;) ) know how things work out for you....
Cheers!
Uhh....would that be a rather LARGE, well-known ISP?
This may be a stupid question.
I am assuming that you are increasing your click-pop by constantly clicking on your hyperlink in the directories.
How are you doing this without getting caught?
This is an area of SEO that I never worried about. I must be missing something. If someone could post your method or send me a sticky mail I would appreciate it.
That is my stupid question of the day.
Thank you in advance.
The basic process will depend on whether your ISP assigns a static or dynamic IP address to your transactions.
If it is static, that makes it harder, as you may need to disconnect and reconect to attain a new IP address with them each time. You do not want to keep coming back searching for "blue widgets" using the same IP address for sure.
Although directories generally / primarily track you with cookies. So, you would need to go to a directory, search, then click on your site and stay there (coming off short time would mean that your site maybe is not relevant in their eyes / algorythmn for that search term - nudge, nudge, wink, wink).
So then, once you have clicked over to your site. Go to a neutral site in rotation (best another search engine). Then delete your windows cookie and cache folders (temporary internet files). Although, be warned, they may be able to see a cookie in the windows properties cache folder as well. So you may want to use a tool like Washer For IE.
Then, go back to them and search / click again.
It is a lot more involved then that for mass efforts. And they almost certainly have many algorythmns to ignore, or even penalize "pop spammers", and likely "bots / crawlers". But a few times each day will probably start you off and do you some good.
The big problem is to appear to be a genuine surfer each time. So maybe a tip is to decide which directory uses click pop and is most important to you. Then use them for your regular surfing as well.
It is possible to mass click pop (I should know), but that is a hugely complex business that I, for one, would not give away just like that, as I have only just gotten to where I am. But you have much more then the seeds here / above.
Seth - I will let you know, I promise. I also work with a friend of yours on this forum.
jk3210 - Yes it would.
Would be keen to be kept in the loop as well.
- Newbie "Again, maybe you should look at how you orchestrate your added click pop "program"
Fair comment. The system we have been using is pretty sound in terms of not getting caught but possibly lacks the aggressiveness required to accelerate your way up quickly.
After your comments, I for one will be re-looking at our method.
Sure, I will let you know. Maybe if I scratch your back...
And the way to go regarding click pop is (I humbly believe) right under your nose, on your PC already :-) :-)
Just think about what you would do, if you were Yahoo, to filter out bots and poppers.
"Windows95/98:
- Open Autoexec.bat with notepad
- Add the following inside Autoexec.bat, just before the last line of it. Do NOT put it in the beginning of the autoexec.bat and not at the end of it, leave that last line in autoexec.bat as the last line of the autoexec.bat. So write these as they are here:
deltree /Y c:\windows\history\
deltree /Y c:\windows\cookies\
deltree /Y c:\windows\tempor~1\
-Save it."
The above is in quotes because I did not write it but, I do not know who did.
is this neccessary? will windows washer suffice? can Yahoo really read beyond the easily deleted cookies i.e. the index dat file?
