Forum Moderators: LifeinAsia
Now working sub-contract for an SEO company as well as starting up my own business, making $100/hr or more.
I think once you work a while and have some jobs/experience behind you, you will start getting referrals. Take care of your early clients and do right by them, it will pay off in the long run and your reputation will precede you.
I think a wage poll would be a good idea, perhaps it could incorporate the job type as well, i.e. full time SEO, part web developer part SEO, junior SEO etc...
It would also help to get a general idea of the location of each business. Big market? Small market?
I know the market where I am would never support $250/hour for ANYTHING related to Internet services. Then again, this area qualifies as a medium-to-small market.....
I know the market where I am would never support $250/hour for ANYTHING related to Internet services. Then again, this area qualifies as a medium-to-small market.....
Two points there: first, I haven't found geographic location to be very important at all. When my company focused on traditional website design and development, we did market locally and used the ability to have personal contact as a plus (we're in the NYC area, so there are plenty of potential clients). But since we've rebranded and have been concentrating on seo almost all of our clients are from outside the area, and ranging as far as Egypt.
Second, regarding the idea of $250/hr for "anything related to Internet services" --certainly in these days of dirt cheap web designers and $5/month hosting packages there's that perception to consider. But effective seo work is still rare enough that it can be priced well above most of those services. As long as you are effective at seo first, but effective at marketing and negotiation as well.
Sure, some people don't want to pay anything close to that. I like to call those "the people listed on page two." :)
Uh... that said, though, we haven't pulled in anything close to $250 per hour. Yet.
See, aside from talent and skill, I look SEO as an art :) . For me, I would rather flip burgers(that's in my resume) than work as an SEO and not appreciated (clients assuming SEO comes a dime a dozen).
It's not really the size of the market. I have projects that has almost no competition in their area. As WebRookie have pointed out, sometimes it's in the reputation, it's the old boys/girls(?) network. Whom would you trust, a sales pitch or the recommendation of your close friend(maybe not that close)?
And locale, is not an issue either. You would be amaze where your clients are coming from as pointed out by Jayc.
Just my 2 cents
Sure, some people don't want to pay anything close to that. I like to call those "the people listed on page two."
LOL! Best line I've seen on the Forums since I joined!
It's not really the size of the market. I have projects that has almost no competition in their area. As WebRookie have pointed out, sometimes it's in the reputation, it's the old boys/girls(?) network. Whom would you trust, a sales pitch or the recommendation of your close friend(maybe not that close)?And locale, is not an issue either. You would be amaze where your clients are coming from as pointed out by Jayc.
But size of market and locale are factors. We have clients in 24-25 states, but the brunt of our business is from the folks who can walk in and speak to us face-to-face. (I should mention we're doing development and design in addition to SEO.) The bottom line is that if we charge double what our next highest competitor charges, we're turning away X percentage of clients. The market just won't support it. You could open a nice hotel in the big city and get $400/night for the best room ... but in a smaller market like this you'll never rent that room at that rate. Market-size and locale are factors in any pricing situation.
But size of market and locale are factors.
I'd say that they can be factors. It's really a question of how you market your services. But your local economy doesn't have to limit what you can earn, if you can manage not to compete in that market. But if you have a good local presence and word of mouth in that market is working for you, it'd be a tough decision: should you turn away from a steady clientele and chase after deeper pockets?
As I said, though, we've found it easier to do that with "straight seo" work than with "regular" web design and development.
That seems very low, especially for London.
Quoting hourly rates in this business is somewhat skrewed.
Example - to effectively Optimize a specific site you must appreciate the industry competitiveness online, the current markets the client is targeting as well as secondary markets that are possible for targeting.
This is the SEOers intellectual property. This is where the value is hidden and the client really doesn't need to know this information and it shouldn't be provided unless the client pays dearly for it.
In this way the SEOer can reduce cost to the client and at the same time risk manage the relationship.
In addition, this infromation is extremely useful to all businesses in the same industry targeting the same markets.
Some clients require a disclaimer that forbids the SEOer from targeting other companies in the industry. Short of paying me $1 million dollars, my signature would never be on this form since that would be the bare minimum I would net from others.
I currently work with 2 companies that would normally be considered direct "local" competitors.
However, since neither owns a global 1% markets share it's a little redundant saying they are in direct competition, online. Using this joint relationship helps both companies grow "globally" while at the same time I did my homework once and got paid twice.
A little like an online merger I suppose.
I have found that information can lead to knowledge and knowledge may lead to wisdom. However, lack of understanding that information can lead to disaster and there is lots of proof of that online.Intellectual property is mine. I don't give it away, but I also don't make the clients pay for it either. They generally can't afford it and wouldn't know how to use it, wisely.
As for remuneration? I would say it is about US $22, 000 - $30, 000 with little programming skills and performance bonuses built into the contract. Remember though, the cost of living here is much cheaper therefore it is probably equivalent to about $100K US annually.
