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What is the retail value of this pay-per-view website?

     
1:57 am on Jun 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Well, I am finally outsourcing my work, which is something I should have done a long time ago, as my forte is in running a business, not in design. However, I certainly did learn a lot while I was doing everything myself. I'm sure the knowledge that I obtained will prove to be invaluable in the future.

In any case, what pretty much forced me to start outsourcing my work is that a client of mine proposed a project that I did not have the capacity to develop myself.

Since I have not developed a site to date that incorporates all of the features that he wants, I do not have the resources to price this project myself.

So, I decided that I would rely on a very knowledgeable and professional community...you guys.

In any case, here is the project outlined. Please give me your best educated guesstimate as to the retail value of it. I know that it may not be exact as prices will really vary depending on the finished product, but please do your best. If you want to give a range, that's fine as well.

Much thanks.

The Project
(please be sure to read the update to this project)

Eight Page Website:

  • Homepage [may want to have a blog incorporated into the homepage so that the client can continually update his visitors on the projects he is working on]
  • About Us
  • Projects (projects the client's company has completed)
  • Events/Upcoming Projects [may incorporate a blog into this page as well]
  • Production Stills (photos taken on the set)[client also wants to incorporate a blog or web admin program that will allow him to update/add photos to this section; can he add pages as well?]
  • Demo Reels/Production Clips (includes video clips)
  • About [owner of website] (includes video clips) [this page will promote his acting career]
  • Contact

    Background of Client

    He is an actor in New York who also owns his own film production company that produces feature films and short films. He is currently developing projects, and would like to have a professional, yet fun, website where he can direct potential producers to look at his future projects with everything laid out in a very easy to navigate manner.

    Client's Requests

  • Would like the website to have a street/rugged look to it
  • Wants to incorporate some Flash objects into the website to make it lively/fun, yet stay professional
  • Does not want it to be another boring business website
  • Gave a site as a reference, but wanted his website to be a level above that with respect to quality
  • Likes the metallic look
  • Black background with green as the dominant color; however, is open to other possibilites (e.g. different color for the background)
  • Likes the title in 3-D
  • Suggested having a flash object that has catchy film production terms that you hear on the set coming at you, then fading away
  • However, also suggested using icons that are related to film production (icons of film cameras, slates, etc.), and having other effects that would make the visitor think that they were actually on the set

    As you can see, there is some variance and leeway in this project. He just wants some options, and then he will choose from those options. He stated that he'll know it when he sees it. And he is definitely open to suggestions.

    UPDATE FROM CLIENT:

    Client stated he wants 4 films on the website (to start) for people to watch for a fee (pay-per-view).

    3 Short Films (15 - 30 min. each)

    1 Feature Film (1.5 hrs.) [Feasible?]

    [We will most likely be encoding the video ourselves if possible; can this be done with programs like Premiere Pro?]

    Client also wants a Links page.

    This makes it a FIFTEEN PAGE website, adding 4 pages for each of the films, 1 page for the terms and conditions for viewing, and 1 Links page.

    The client would also like a link next to each film allowing the visitor to purchase the DVD version of that film.

  • [edited by: stuntdubl at 1:04 pm (utc) on June 1, 2004]
    [edit reason] No urls, thanks. See TOS [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]

    9:19 am on June 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

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    Ballpark $30K-$40K. Without talking to the client it could go as much as $10K down or up. The reference site is horrible, so it would be really hard to do worse!

    >my forte is in running a business, not in design.

    I'm just a tad concerned about that statement! My forte is in design, although I do run the business, but why are you asking others what they would charge?

    3 most important questions for the client:

    1. Is the site aimed at getting you acting roles?
    2. Is the site aimed at getting you PPV revenue?
    3. Are you looking for an online portfolio to generate auditions.

    These questions are far from harmless, they are critical Q/A I would want before taking another call from the "client".

    I don't do "actors", it is too hard to make money in that area. But, if you are set on this idea then I would suggest you think for them, and not let them think for you!

    3:25 pm on June 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

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    Ballpark $30K-$40K. Without talking to the client it could go as much as $10K down or up.

    Are you including hosting in that guesstimate? It's amazing to me how the price of one project can fluctuate so drastically. I have gotten answers that range from $6000 to $15,000, and now up to $40,000. Obviously, the quality of the website, the language and apps used, the technology used for the streaming video, etc., all have a play in it, but for one project to vary so drastically in price is amazing.

    >my forte is in running a business, not in design.

    I'm just a tad concerned about that statement! My forte is in design, although I do run the business, but why are you asking others what they would charge?

  • I have never dealt with a website of this caliber before so I do not know the market value of it
  • As a good businessman should do, I am researching the market value of a product I am about to sell so I can price it competitively
  • I am using as many avenues as possible to do my research
  • All businesses research the prices that other businesses are selling their product for so they can stay on top of their game (Are you saying they don't?)

    If you had a product that you were going to sell that you were not familiar with, would you just blindly price it? That would be a very unwise business move.

    3 most important questions for the client:

    1. Is the site aimed at getting you acting roles?
    2. Is the site aimed at getting you PPV revenue?
    3. Are you looking for an online portfolio to generate auditions.

    These questions are far from harmless, they are critical Q/A I would want before taking another call from the "client".

    He wants to focus on his production company and make money with the site, but he wants a page up there to tell about him and his acting career. His acting page will not be the focus, though. He just wants to let people know about him and what he does, just in case the right person looks at his site. As they say, you never know. He will also have a website that will solely promote his acting. Not quite sure why "client" is in quotes. He is a real client.

    I don't do "actors", it is too hard to make money in that area.

    Depends where you are. Where I live, actors are extremely well paid. Again, not sure about the significance of the quotes. These are real actors I am dealing with.

    Btw, does anyone have any links to some companies that deal with WSD? I tried Google, but could not find any decent sites on the subject.

  • 5:16 pm on June 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

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    I think something in the $7000-$10,000 range would be reasonable.

    I would suggest parting out the project into different components and then estimating the number of hours each section would take x the rate per hour to hire a contract worker with that skillset. I would then add a somewhat higher rate per hour for additional work after the final handoff of the project so that the client understands that upkeep and customization is not free on an ongoing basis.

    1. creative work: layout, theme, sketches, etc. Get a few possibilities together and have the client approve one. (10 to 15 hours of work here?)

    2. html design work (10 hours)
    $20-$50 per hour
    3. flash rendering work (10 to 15 hours, the creative concepts will have already been laid out above.)
    $20-$50 per hour

    4. ecommerce setup - are you going to customize, will he get a merchant account setup or go with a simpler paypal option? (give your client choices) (10 to 15 hours)
    ($65-$125 per hour)

    5. digitizing of footage. Do you have the equipment and software licenses to do this. Are you charging the customer accordingly for this?
    (I have no idea)

    6. content management system for blogs and updates.
    ($65-$125 per hour)

    I would also add in a monthly "maintenence and customizations" fee of a few hundred dollars per month; if this is hard for the client to swallow, say you will add in a few hours of included customization work. Also add in somewhat steeper cost per hour for additional future work. You can use it as a bargaining chip in the future. Only you will know the full website inside and out. You could probably resell hosting as well, consolidate the bill with any ecommerce fees that need to be paid as well, and act as the single "bill." Bandwidth will be a cost driver, make sure the client understands that costs go up with more PPV.

    Good luck.

    6:44 pm on June 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

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    Thanks for breaking that down so well, Wayzel. Much appreciated.

    I do have some questions, however.

    I would also add in a monthly "maintenence and customizations" fee of a few hundred dollars per month

    I am not used to charging a "maintenance fee." Of course, I charge a hosting fee on which I make a profit, and I guess that would include maintenance, as I am to take care of things if things go wrong, which is extremely rare.

    I usually just charge for updates on a per update basis. Are there actually things that need to be done to maintain it, or is this fee just simply in case something happens and I have to maintain it? And what customizations are you referring to? Not sure what sort of customization I would be doing after the project has been completed.

    if this is hard for the client to swallow, say you will add in a few hours of included customization work.

    Do you mean "throw in a few hours of included customization work," as in not charge for them? And again, not sure what you mean by "customization work." Please explain.


    Also add in somewhat steeper cost per hour for additional future work. You can use it as a bargaining chip in the future. Only you will know the full website inside and out.

    Could you give examples of "steeper charges?" How much extra would you charge? And how do you justify raising the hourly rate for future work? Is it justified on account of my knowing the website inside and out like you stated? Do clients buy that reason?

    You could probably resell hosting as well

    I plan on it. Any suggestions for hosting company with dedicated servers that have streaming and archiving capability? (you can PM me if you need to)

    ...consolidate the [hosting] bill with any ecommerce fees that need to be paid as well, and act as the single "bill."

    Not sure I want to be paying the client's ecommerce fees. What if they don't pay their bill? I am stuck with paying it unless I want to damage my credit. I know that I can cut them off and cancel the ecommerce account, but that would be such a hassle, and would not do much for my name either. And won't they be using their own merchant account? If so, I would think it would be best to have their company's name on that merchant account instead of mine.

    Bandwidth will be a cost driver, make sure the client understands that costs go up with more PPV.

    Will do.

     

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