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Google Datacenters Watch 2006-02-21

Observations, Analysis and Remarks

   
2:11 pm on Feb 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



< continued from [webmasterworld.com...] >

Current BigDaddy status from what I can see:

- BD is visible on (using 'sf giants' test)
64.233.161.99
64.233.161.104
64.233.161.105
64.233.161.147
64.233.171.99
64.233.171.104
64.233.171.105
64.233.171.147
64.233.179.104
64.233.185.104
64.233.187.104
66.249.93.104
216.239.37.99
216.239.37.104
216.239.39.99
216.239.39.104

That is around 1/3 of datacenters listed on the McDar tool (I think).

- For me at least BD is returning a significantly lower number of indexed pages.
- BD index is still clogged full of scrapers, doorways and 404s. Meanwhile the sites sticking by the guidelines are getting trounced.

Google puzzle me.

[edited by: tedster at 6:01 am (utc) on Nov. 8, 2006]
[edit reason] thread split [/edit]

8:36 am on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>annej

Where is Reseller? I miss his daily updates.<<

>>Pico_Train

Reseller, where are you?<<

Thank you for asking. I miss ya too :-)

Have been following the thread daily, but haven't had the time to do much DCs watching. Working on SEO and web marketing of an international B2B search engine project which has been taking most of my time and energy. Doing my best to keep the famous whitehat on ;-)

Shall joine the thread again during this weekend.

Wish you all a great day and a nice weekend.

God bless WebmasterWorld community.

3:41 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



As a previous fan of Big Daddy I am now convinced that the new infrastructure is now severly flawed.

Before Big Daddy we had canonical/indexing problems resulting in missing pages, url only and supplementals.

When Big Daddy was introduced our site was immediatly fixed with EVERY page correctly indexed with full title, snipet, url and NO supplementals.

Whoopee I thought - and I was right as we regained all our SERPs positions when Big Daddy was live on Google.co.uk.

Then yesterday our SERPS were effected on Big Daddy so I did a site: check and was amazed to see that only 227 out of 415 pages were now indexed. Furthermore No Snipet listings had arrived as well as a few supplementals.

I then did the same site: check on all three official Big Daddy DC's and the results were different on all three.

I transferred the data to a spreadsheet put them side by side and all were significantly different but all WRONG.

How has the originally perfect indexing by BD fallen so quickly into a complete mess?

I had very high hopes but am now un-convinced that the new index is working.

The ironic thing is that the default index is now listing all our pages , even though some without snipet, and our SERPs are now good again on default - just as Big Daddy is taking over...

Any ideas?

3:58 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



<<Then yesterday our SERPS were effected on Big Daddy so I did a site: check and was amazed to see that only 227 out of 415 pages were now indexed. Furthermore No Snipet listings had arrived as well as a few supplementals.>>

I have witnessed similar action in my sector. We had been doing very well in SERPs, on BD servers, then all of a sudden this week I see a HUGE reduction in # of indexed pages (from ~28,000 pre 2/21 down to ~9,000 post 2/21; whereas I see ~36,000 in non-BD centers) and a loss of a #1 position for one of my top 3 keywords.

I can only assume (hope) that this was some kind of rollback, or brief deindexing of some of the freshly-crawled pages in order to restructure something.

Has anyone else noticed big changes during their DC watching this week?

4:03 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yes, crawling on Big Daddy does not seem up to much.....

But I guess that we will have to wait for all of the infastructure to go live before proper indexing/crawling etc.

Ellio

Perhaps the odd things they are happy with in Big Daddy has spread to the other DCs before the main bulk of the infastructure.

If it is an indexing rather than a stuctural thing at the moment - I would think/hope that indexing would improve after deployment accross all dcs.

>>>>>Has anyone else noticed big changes during their DC watching this week?

Nothing really happening - I bet MC will say it wont be ready to June or something soon.

4:21 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Some of my 'fixed' pages are rolling out across all DC's now - can't work out why it's not all of them!
4:32 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



<<Nothing really happening - I bet MC will say it wont be ready to June or something soon. >>

I surely hope so. If things continue as they have this week, I will be hurting badly come the rollout.

5:04 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It would be wise to WAIT until the whole BD update is rolled out before declaring that Big Daddy is flawed or start to panic with head in hands crying foul! This thread is for analyzing and remarking on the "BD behaviours" you are witnessing.

I have no doubt that the algo is being analyzed and tweeked by the Google engineers constantly. Until its live across all DC's, why don't we all try to stick to analysis of what we are seeing which is sticking for several days in a row rather than those things which appear, disappear, appear and disappear again. The soup isn't fully cooked yet! Give them a break ... there will be plenty of time to declare BD flawed once the roll out is complete!

5:26 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Liane >>

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. Well said!

7:08 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Does anyone have an idea of when the update will be completed?

We have seen an increase of a small amount, but all the pages are old pages in the search results. Would like to see the new content show up and see how it does.

8:11 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



One site I manage shows 850 pages indexed on some DCs and only 399 pages on others. My default DC here is one that is showing 399 pages.

Might just be coincidental and I am not finished with a complete analysis, but one thing I have noticed for this site...quite a lot of the pages that are no longer indexed are also pages that we have adwords for.

8:36 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)



I agree with Liane,

I mean, it's been 14 months since Google last gave anything resembling good search results ... what's a couple of weeks more to wait?

he he he [inane nitrous oxide giggles]

Love you all

Col :-)

9:16 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Disregard my previous post regarding missing pages and adwords...found enough pages to verify that it is simply coincidence.

Sure hope the missing pages come back soon.

11:35 pm on Feb 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Liane & Others,

The main jist of my post was that a previously perfectly indexed site in Big Daddy (7 years old white hat and PR6) suddenly became very badly indexed with many key pages simply gone missing with the resulting changes in SERPs.

If this is not pointing out behavioural changes then what is?

The point about the site: searches being totally different in all three "declared" BD DC's is also relevant.

I hope its some kind of rollback rather than the new infrastructure not actually working as well I thought it was.

12:35 pm on Feb 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



As a previous fan of Big Daddy I am now convinced that the new infrastructure is now severly flawed.

This is the comment to which I was referring. If this wasn't a knee jerk reaction ... I don't know what is!

I then did the same site: check on all three official Big Daddy DC's and the results were different on all three.

And that is my point exactly. Will the "real" Big Daddy please stand up?

How has the originally perfect indexing by BD fallen so quickly into a complete mess?

None of us knows how Google works and although we are permitted glimpses of the backroom goings on when we access these DC's ... none of us knows which stage any particular Big Daddy data center is at at any given point in time. For all we know, engineer "A" is working on one specific BD datacenter, while engineers B,C,D,E and F are all working on another and doing 5 different things at once. We simply don't know.

Adding to the confusion, Googlebot is constantly feeding all these datacenters new information and updating them at different times. So while Googlebot is doing its thing in the background, and engineers are turning various knobs and applying this filter or that algo change ... you have a stew which then takes many hours, days, weeks or even months to blend properly and make any kind of sense.

When Big Daddy was introduced our site was immediatly fixed with EVERY page correctly indexed with full title, snipet, url and NO supplementals.

Your observation that pages are disappearing may simply be due to Googlebot updating the info using yet another variation of the Big Daddy algo. Its easy for Google to index sites. What takes time is applying all the algo changes, filters, etc.

All I'm saying Ellio is that its best not to preface your observations with declarations such as "the new algo is seriously flawed". That sort of "the sky is falling" statement has a bad habit of scaring the bejeebers out of some webmasters who may be new to Google watching. It can invoke a lot of hand wringing, sleepless nights and worse! It may even cause those who agree with you for whatever reason ... to do something rash with their site(s) prematurely and very possibly needlessly.

The ironic thing is that the default index is now listing all our pages , even though some without snipet, and our SERPs are now good again on default

Hmmmm. Is it really "ironic" or is there the tiniest chance that Google isn't broken after all? :)

I guess we'll just have to wait and see!

12:42 pm on Feb 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Agreed Liane

I think even after big daddy is rolled out it might be a little while before we see the full benefit of the infastructure change - MC has indicated that this might be the case too.

FWIW - Big Daddy seems to have spread to a few more DCs over night.

6:13 pm on Feb 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Lianne,

I agree with most of your comments and will refrain from stating my individual thoughts in such a manner.

The fact is though that all BD DC's had every one of our pages indexed and even in the correct order, a complete fix before a few days ago when it all changed and a few major pages simply dissapeared along with about 200 other less important pages.

I understand SERPs movements duew to algo tweaking but my experience has shown that pages gone missing are usually due to infrastructure related indexing problems.

What engineers tweeking would make a PR7 page on a very well known high ranking site (well aged and ranking top 3 since 1999) simply disappear from the index only to re-appear six weeks later back at No.2 for one of the most searched terms on the internet?

6:16 pm on Feb 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Interesting to note that on MC's blog, the most recent article/post to have a PR value above O is 4th February. Those prior to that in many cases have extremely high PR, up to PR6.
I guess something can be equated from that, but it's a certainty that he makes no financial gain from his blog, with adverts etc., so the PR value has relevancy for information, but not for commerce as far as he is concerned :-)
3:37 am on Feb 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Google is doing a BL/Pagerank update and at the same time it is slowly rolling out Big Daddy. Matt Cutts at Google has publicly said that the two rollouts are going to cause confussion and to please be patient. He indicated that it take 10 days to convert a datacenter server over to Big Daddy and then it has to start indexing and that can take many days. I would give it a month before you start trying to draw conclusions on Big Daddy or even the update. It is just to soon to tell.
9:27 pm on Feb 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The Search Quality of BigDaddy

Good evening Folks!

Though the new infrastructure of BigDaddy hasn't migrated yet to all the DCs, we mightbe able already now to register improvements or decline of quality of searches. Because; whats more important for any search engine than the relevancy of its serps?

One of the factors we might use in judging serps quality of any search engine is the degree of presence of spam sites on top 10 or top 20 of its serps.

Personally I have noticed the disappearance of few spam sites from top 10 within the sectors I watch and that is a good signal of better search quality on BigDaddy indeed. Of course I speak here only about what I see within the sectors I watch, and can't issue a general statement.

Another encouraging signal is to see a "Gateway-pages-site", which I have reported recently under BigDaddy spam reporting, disappear from the top of the serps. Maybe its just a coincident ;-)

What do you think about the search quality of BigDaddy so far?

Thanks!

11:58 pm on Feb 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



<What do you think about the search quality of BigDaddy so far?>

In my field, page one results - good - thereafter - not very good at all.

12:22 am on Feb 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



More canonicals issues with Big Daddy datacenters. I see a Yahoo Directory page ranking, with trailing slash, at about #20. Same page, without trailing slash, at about #50.

In a way this is the worst of the canonical problems because it isn't due to webmaster sloppiness like www stuff.

<heh, just checked, Google has the above page indexed six different ways on the Big Daddy datacenters>

12:39 am on Feb 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



... this seems to be never ending.

I still see all the same old supplemental problems all over the place too (not that I ever expected anyone at Google to actually understand the problem).

1:05 am on Feb 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member




Big daddy is not bad at all, but come one now is time to fix things and let's move on!
10:04 am on Feb 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have loads of pages missing on the Big Daddy data centers - it has become really noticeable over this past weekend - I assume Big Daddy has rolled out onto further data centers this weekend?

I really hope that this is just a temporary glitch - Googlebot spiders my site regularly so it should know that the pages exist.

Are many webmasters suffering with this, or just an unfortunate few?

10:12 am on Feb 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



how many datacenters is BD on now? Anybody? Reseller?
10:16 am on Feb 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I would say 18 out of the 25 C-Classes I monitor with a tool (although coming and going on some - 15 consistently) are showing Big Daddy.

With reference to the indexing on Big Daddy - looks like I am not the only one hoping that once the infastructure goes live then a massive re-indexing is going to happen.

12:54 pm on Feb 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



You and me both Dayo. Sure as heck hope that we see some big time re-indexing...and soon!

The indexed page drops in Big Daddy are really hitting me. Went from 850 pages to 399 and now down to 279. And quite a few of the missing pages are main "theme" pages (linked from the navigation structure of every page in the site).

1:26 pm on Feb 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Seems kinda strange, as I have 820 pages indexed on 'classic' DC's and 60,000 on BD, which is totally to the contrary of what you guys are seeing. The site has thousands of pages, but not 60,000!
3:22 pm on Feb 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member annej is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Big Daddy seems fine until you search using a phrase that describes something that could also be sold commercially.

Then I find sites with that have the key words two or even three times just in the title. Maybe I just need to spam up my title.

Are content sites just out of luck if they give educational information about something that is also sold?

I much prefer the non BD results on this sort of search.

3:26 pm on Feb 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Big Daddy seems fine until you search using a phrase that describes something that could also be sold commercially.

That is exactly my thoughts. I'm pretty pleased overall with my sites on BD, but when I search for a product, I can't find what I'm looking for on BD.

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