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Update Jagger, Google Update Oct 18th, 2005

When can we expect a new PR update?

     
5:33 pm on Oct 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Continued from here:
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Anyone have any guesses as to when we can expect a new systemwide PR update?
8:46 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"After years of not engaging in exchanging links, we started again -- only to disastrous results. We also stopped accepting article contributions (we use about 5 a month at most) so the site will purely be original content."

This is what I'm talking about. I'm seeing a definite pattern here, it's not the only pattern, other people are seeing other things, that are also highly relevant, but this one, I'm seeing it too much.

So the question is, does anyone out there run a site that has ZERO link development work done on it, no link directories, no link exchanges, nothing, that has seen a major drop? And that has good quality, real, ontopic, backlinks that are created in exactly the way jd said, naturally, slowly, and pointing to real content on inner pages.

I realize that at most a handful of readers of this thread would have sites like that, but I'm curious.

8:48 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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>> Yes, it was actually more of a thought, that had to do with links that cannot be bought. When I said the links I picked up were strong... that was not a joke, I actually have more of them than anyone else in my niche, except .gov sites, and major organizations.

Interesting. I remember reading how G doesn't manually change the results, unless something is obviously wrong. Maybe this was a case of that, or maybe they tuned the algo based on the feedback. Either way, congrats, and thanks again for helping me with my apache rewrite

8:50 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Hotel/travel SERPs still not good.
We run a small destination site and obviously offer ones of the best deals on the Web. However, Google results consist of only large booking sites only - there are approx. 30 travel/hotel sites changing their spots and nothing else.
Each of these sites have auto-generated pages. Each page with the same keyword stuffed text such as:
"enjoy up to 70% discounts on hotels in <small destination>. We have xx hotels here ..."


also think the number of internal BL's is playing a much bigger role accounting for the 50K + page sites wiping out the smaller more focused niche sites.

I agree 100% with 2 previous posts .
Combined both posts give an a explanation why Travel SERPS are dominated by big travel suppliers with no content that have wipe out small but high quality destination oriented travel sites.

Google should pay special attention to this and try to correct it in Jagger 3 , i suppose .

8:56 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Similar situation in the real estate sector, at least for our area.
9:11 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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So, a simple question, anyone has any insight of when is this update gona end?

This thing is killing me. I am totally unmotivated by now.

9:23 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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sirkei - I will say 1-2 weeks it should be done
9:26 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Interesting. I remember reading how G doesn't manually change the results, unless something is obviously wrong. Maybe this was a case of that, or maybe they tuned the algo based on the feedback.

It could also be that it has always been this way, and the links just started to take effect in this update. They were just starting to appear during the last one, so I do not know if there were any changes or if it would have happened naturally in this update anyway.

Justin

BTW You're welcome.

9:28 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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>> This thing is killing me. I am totally unmotivated by now.

Join the gang, but eventually you need to keep going. I was down a while back, but found the drive to redo eveything and when I was back, it was as strong as ever.

I suspect my stupidity is to blame for this drop, and hope to have a better site when I come back.

9:30 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"does anyone out there run a site that has ZERO link development work..."

Yes, I built several like this in the past, and they all seem to be doing slightly better in the jagger updates, so you may be on to something…

The only problem I am having is with a new site that I am trying to fix that had numerous duplicate content problems that were created long before I came on board. This is a very difficult problem to uncover, but it's a killer, so make sure that there is no possibility of your site triggering the dupe filter in any of the SEs, both internally and externally of your site.

9:35 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"does anyone out there run a site that has ZERO link development work..."
Yes, I built several like this in the past, and they all seem to be doing slightly better in the jagger updates, so you may be on to something…

Ditto for me. Several sites are doing well. The only site I am involved with that purchased links dropped about 3 places on the SERPs. Most of my sites don't have links pages but a few links at the bottm of pages as additional resources and all of these sites have improved on rank and traffic.
9:37 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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We have an extensive link directory (3500+). All validated, related legitmate links. All nicely categorized by state and by category.

Jagger has brought us back from the grave.

9:40 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I have a clean affiliate site, lots of content and very few links going out to other sites. It has held top spots for numerous keywords for over 1yr. Now I cannot find it under any of my keywords. It is only found when I search the words that make up my domain. Ex: mywebsite.com is found only when I search for “my web site” (without quotes). I have also noticed that other web sites that are doing the same affiliate program as me have disappeared. Anybody have opinions on this?
9:45 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Oh, I should have been more specific, I'm talking about non-affiliate sites, I expect affiliates to drop due to many factors, so seeing one drop, even though it's clean, doesn't surprise me at all.

I've got to do some reading on this. All the sites I do that have no link work on them are doing either the same or better than pre jagger. But there are other differences that might make this a less meaningful observation than I want.

seotard, when you say jagger brought you back from the grave, do you mean the site was junk in the serps, low down, and now it's ranking for good target keywords? How old is the site? Did it ever rank before? And when did it drop?

also, is this a real directory in all ways, in other words, no link exchanges, no reciprocals, a pure outbound only link directory that is, usefulness being its primary purpose for existence, not seo etc?

[edited by: 2by4 at 9:50 pm (utc) on Oct. 27, 2005]

9:49 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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2by4

our site is 7 years old.

We were always (many years anyway) in the top 5 results for most terms we cared about until around June of this year then BAM - page 7 or 8.

With Jagger - we are back to top 5 again. Business has literally tripled.

Edit: oops - no it is a reciprocal link directory. I started it as a service to our visitors. Wasn't even thinking about SEO at the time.

[edited by: SEOTard at 9:53 pm (utc) on Oct. 27, 2005]

9:52 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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seotard, that's another category I hadn't even considered, but obviously well worth looking at:
sites that were down and that have recovered in jagger, those may be even more revealing.

Did you guys do anything since june to recover? I'm sure you did stuff, but anything really major? more inbound Links, non-www to www rewrites, etc

which update was that in June, I wasn't around seo at the time, came back in around bourbon, didn't follow the stuff earlier for a few months.

"no it is a reciprocal link directory. I started it as a service to our visitors. Wasn't even thinking about SEO at the time."

That's exactly what I wanted to know, I actually had typed in the word 'intention' when asking you about your directory, but I edited it out, but that really is the key word, is the intention seo, or is it real, like you have. This is getting much more interesting, thanks for that example.

[edited by: 2by4 at 9:54 pm (utc) on Oct. 27, 2005]

9:54 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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stinky:
I have also noticed that other web sites that are doing the same affiliate program as me have disappeared.

I have seen this with several affiliate sites that I monitor. I suspect it's a significant trend.

-S

9:57 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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2by4,

We did several things.

- Cleaned up alot of HTML code. Invalid alt tags created by mistake.

- Added about 400 pages of product specific content.

- Adjusted dynamically generated content to appear as static (changed .asp?questionID=1245 to /question1245)

- Became stricter on our reciprocal link program - tighter content restrictions, page rank requirements etc. although thousands of old links remain.

- removed SOME overly used keywords

When our site was removed I was literally shocked. We are without a doubt a VERY legitmate site in our niche.

9:58 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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If I've followed any of this correctly, which is obviously open to question, seotard, it sounds like the thing is about natural, consistent link growth. The patent talks a lot about that. My guess is that seos and their clients are generally too impatient to implement slow link building campaigns, so they go in bursts. Especially when the last burst worked.

It's just possible that the sites I'm seeing left in the serps that have heavy link building work on them have simply done the work consistently over the years, that's just a guess, and have avoided bursts, or other signs of unnatural link growth. Takes discipline though. And takes time.

<added>
"Adjusted dynamically generated content to appear as static (changed .asp?questionID=1245 to /question1245)"

this may be the one that solved your problems, this fits with what somebody else has told me.

Also of course, I have never rewritten the html of a site, cleaned up urls, added content, and seen anything but an improvement. But from what I've heard, the cleaning up of your dynamic urls to static may be what did it for you.

10:02 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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link growth might be it, but if you are on top all of the sudden, you're bound to get 100's of scrapers. 3 months later, Google will penalize you unless you have a special status
10:05 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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2by4

agreed - considering this added thousands of indexed pages WITH titles in Google.

Personally it shouldn't make a differnce. Just because the content comes from a database doesn't make it bogus. Why should I create a single document for 1000s of questions that have been answered.

Personally - nothing makes much sense about this update (except the fact that we are back up). The top ten still has KEYWORD STUFFED directory sites and one site that has been killed with Jagger2 appears to me to be VERY legit.

10:06 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"unless you have a special status"

Exactly, it's that special status that interests me.

I'm going to have to go back and read the patent application from 3-31.

While scrapers can affect the nature of inbounds, they can't affect the nature of outbounds. And before the scrapers start hitting your site, there is already a pattern of link building happening, if it's all fully legitimate, that's something that can be modelled. Scrapers themselves can be modelled, just download the scraping tools and look at the pages they create, then remove that profile from the serps.

If there's one thing I've seen, it's that most seos have no creativity, they are trying to shove stuff out the door as fast as possible. This is their weakness.

If the large growth happens before the natural growth, that's almost a dead give away of seo, not completely, could be news stories etc, slashdotting, but those types of sites usually already had a presence on the web.

[edited by: 2by4 at 10:10 pm (utc) on Oct. 27, 2005]

10:07 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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walkman - we were on top for several years before June.

I sure hope it doesn't happen. Either way - most of my time since has been spent finding other ways to generate business.

As I have stated before, a business model that relies so heavily on Google is not a good business model at all.

Thank GOD I didn't quit my job when business was so good at the beginning of the year. I have learned ALOT since June.

10:21 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Can someone clarify something for me -

Why does a page go supplemental?
How do you get it out from supplemental?

10:29 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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stinky

>>I have also noticed that other web sites that are doing the same affiliate program as me have disappeared. Anybody have opinions on this? <<

Have you checked lately the vendor/merchant site of your affiliate program to see whether its penalized?

10:37 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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It's just possible that the sites I'm seeing left in the serps that have heavy link building work on them have simply done the work consistently over the years, that's just a guess, and have avoided bursts, or other signs of unnatural link growth. Takes discipline though. And takes time.

It sure does take time. Building traffic this way takes a painful amount of time but my guess is that it could ultimately lead to the greatest reward. As long as you are thinking long term and not traying to just make some cash as fast as you can before Google takes your juice away.
10:42 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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This may be a bit basic SEO 101 for some of you guys but:

…what happens if Home page Meta tags are changed during a Google update?

Does it trip a filter or have a detrimental affect on a site’s SERPS? Is it seen as responsive manupulation by the engine?

It’s just that I have wanted to change the title for some time – should I wait for Jagger to complete?

Has any one had any experience? Thanks

10:47 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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It’s just that I have wanted to change the title for some time – should I wait for Jagger to complete?

If this is something you are going to do no matter what then there's no point in waiting.
10:47 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I changed my header tag outside of an update, and it affected my SERP's in MSN search for about 3 weeks. They then settled back to positions in the first 10 results. It had no effect on Google,but as we aren't sure what Jager 3 is all about, It may best to act cautiously , and leave it for another 2 weeks or so before making changes.
10:54 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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nzmatt

In addition to Eazygoin suggestions, you may wish to visit this thread:

Site dropped due to "Gaming Google"
Are you gaming Google without being aware of that?

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11:04 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Changing the title during an update shouldn't cause your site to rise or fall nor should a simple change like that be construed as "gaming google". Changing a title is pretty normal webmaster behavior. If you are changing the title to attempt to increase your rank then you may as well wait. If it's something unrelated to ranking and, as I said, something you are going to do no matter what then just do it.
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