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I have put in an ENOURMOUS amount of effort to build up my business over the last 2 years and have done everything in my power not to offend the google gods in anyway by following all the basic do's and don'ts that they suggest on their website.
I operate ONE website with enourmous amounts of content, have a good internal linking structure and a decent on-topic reciprocal linking program.
I have for the last year remained on either page one or two for many important keyword searches(occasionally slipping down to page 3 or 4), which is quite acceptable.
BUT BEING BLOWN FROM MANY NUMBER ONE POSITIONS TO NOWHERE TO BE FOUND IS SIMPLY UNBELIEVABLE AND UNFAIR.
My business supports over 20 familes around the world and now I really dont know what to tell them now - cos I just dont know anymore!
I am sure that I am just one example of millions in the same position.
How in the world can Google be so cruel?
You may say dont ONLY RELY on google for ALL your traffic and my answer to that is I DONT! I held top ten positions in Altavista, Inktomi and other engines but still 90% of traffic came from Google!
You may also say try PAID ADVERTISING!
Well I am afraid that just aint an option. How does a little guy like myself compete with the giants that are quite obviously throwing money down the drain.
Paying $4 per click when you need 100 clicks for a sale and you only average $20 profit per sale` is LUDICROUS!
Doesnt Google get it!
They need us as much as we need them!
They want quality sites - we build them - but how can they expect us to run businesses where we can be destroyed OVERNIGHT!
As I said before going from page 1 to page 2 or even page 3 is quite acceptable but going from number one positions to page 10 and beyond is extreme and UNJUST! especially where no spam tactics have been employed!
Wishing you all the best of luck with the next UPDATE!
I didn't see anything particulary offensive either. But, feathers have been ruffled ;)
Nick
A suggestion: Why not call it quits on this one and address some specific issues in seperate threads?
What are you talking about?
Google Controls too many lives
We are all too vulnerable
Can this be more specific?
Whilst Google can delist you in a month, it can take months to set up a major new activity.
I am with SOD :) on this one.
1. Google can delist you (for apparently no good reason)in a jiffy
2. Google (in some businesses) is the only game in town
3. So when Google changes its algorithm, like Pavlov's dogs we firstly react (change the minutiae of our web site to match this months precieved algo), then immediately worry about what will happen next month when Google yet again changes its algo
4. Having said that, I personally use Google when I need information :(
What are you talking about?
Just that there are many sub-topics here, and some participants are unhappy with the responses.
I just wanted to invite people to be cool ;)
Nick
"Can't we all just get a long?"
Although many here are getting over emotional, we need to read about "the good, the bad and the ugly."
But bashing each other is always counter-productive.
Today, I had to get away from this forum (which is addictive in the days before the update) to work on my diversification plan. Just stopped by here for break and now I am going back to work.
Hint, hint.
Personally, I'd like to see a new thread, after the update of course, "Googles new algo: For Better or Worse?"
This last algo, I see relevance and some really off the wall stuff. ie 100 page site that mentions "blue widgets" once gets top serp. 10 page site on blue widgets gets buried. Many sites with two pages in the top 20. Just my experience.
Sorry, can't start it. Got work to do.
hint, hint :-)
where you aren't directly competing, then having other highly ranked sites link to you can also take the strain away...we have three sites that chase similar search terms but which deal with slightly different aspects which send us around 25% of our English language traffic...when we drop in Google they, like as not, go up...we still get the traffic
last update we dropped 12 places from 11th to 23rd on our most competitive single word search...we generally dropped on most search terms...traffic dropped only slightly (compared to an average 5% increase most months)...referrals from Google went down...referrals from other sites went up
as I said, it doesn't apply to everyone...but the objective is generating targeted traffic...and the more ways one approaches that the better
a thousand customers from Google don't pay any more than a hundred from ten other sources...and sometimes it's better to chase after the easy but less effective number one spots
Let's face it, Google is god here and we have all chosen to worship at the Google shrine. In some cases the Google god bestows blessings, and for others Google smites them from existence. No rhyme or reason given by the Google god.
I think of Google like I think of nature. Uncaring, unfeeling, mindless, savage, unrelenting, cruel and in some cases beautiful in it's complexity.
Can you get angry at an earthquake? How about a tornado? Sure you can, but it doesn't matter. That's how I feel about Google, and about the posts I've read here. It's like watching a lion kill a young deer. You admire the power and grace of the hunter, but feel sadness for the young animal who never really stood a chance at survival.
I truly feel bad for those that Google has mindlessly destroyed, banished or in any other way harmed. Too bad nothing can, or will, be done about it.
In the end we will still strive to compete, to survive, to beat the Google algorithm through SEO, great content or some other method. The memory of the pain faced by having your site banished, penalized or simply left behind will fade, like all pain does.
I wish us all luck.
All Hail Google!
As I have said before, you can not remain in top few precentage if you do not apply the best web practices, "all the time".
These practices change often and quickly, and unless you are willing to remain current with knowledge of "today" you will slip slowly, even quickly from view and without any warning signs.
"Quality content", "good internal linking", and "on-topic reciprocal linking" are a very broad terms and used very loosely around the forums. Just because you implement one or all doesn't mean much unless you incorporate "best practices" with them.
As well, each of these broad topics invariably can equally support a site for better performance but they can also interfer with each other and thus reducing the site's performance.
I think it's very important to remember that some of the worlds "best" in art and science of online design, marketing, promotion (including SEO) within Google and out, are right here at WebmasterWorld.
The forum is design to help "freely" however, that does not mean we (all members of WebmasterWorld) can do a better job within each others sites (we do not have specific knowledge of any site's merits other than our own).
The fact that things change often and very quickly means each site owner is ultimately responsible and accountable for their web site's fate, today, tomorrow, and ever day after, unless you deem someone else to you this for you.
If your SERP's go down, the messenger isn't the "cause" (in this case Google), it's just the messenger.
If your site is still listed in Google, Google likes you. Now all you need to do is figure out why Google likes other sites more and use this information to your advantage.
I suppose the solution, if we want to be fair to everyone is for Google to totally drop their whole ranking system, and return a randomized list of serps that match the keywords. Once your page shows up in ANY search it goes to the bottom of the list again. That way everyone gets an equal chance, including the poor mom & pop shops. Wouldn't that be a wonderful solution?
Google does not hold the power to shut down any business on it's own. There are 130 messages in this thread, and at least half of them have reasonable suggestions for ways not to depend on google.
There are sites that *thrive* without good results in google, and I just bought from one in a very competitive area. their site is a PR5, with affilite links that point to it using javascript. I did a search on what I bought using 3 different keyword combinations, and they never came up within the first 10 pages.
Here is the kicker, at least half the people I know who buy this sort of product online, buy from this company. Virtually all their advertising is by giving out promotional freebies with their orders. And it's quality stuff. Stuff you will use and other people will see. You get a weekly newsletter from them, that is only around 10% sales pitch. 40% is useful information about the activity, and 50% is links to useful articles that they have found on the web. I have even seen them freely link to a competitors articles because they have confidence in their relationship with their customers.
Google only holds all the cards if you hand them the deck.
by the way.. dont mind my name.. I dont mean it helpmebe1.. just had a brain lock when signing up.. sure I would love to rank #1 but im not being one of those kinds of people in saying that.. ok.. maybe my name should of been putmeinthetop10? haha.. sorry its late.. cant think anymore
Fathom hits it on the head “The ugly side of this discussion could be cured by "paid inclusion only", then Google would be like everyone else (as far as webmasters are concerned).”
I would add (from a searcher's viewpoint) that the searchers look at the listings as ads and not as true search results. When I think of Overture, I have not look at them as being search results because I know all of the top positions are paid. I never use Overture to find anything. They are not very useful for research even when I'm trying to find software to buy because they only include the advertisers nor am I (or anyone) seeing all the possibilities.
The end of the matter is Google (or any engine so far) has never been a friend of the SEO. I can only think of one engine that tends to attempt to assist Webmasters some only I'm sorry to see them now in a lawsuit with GG which I think won't help it's image. They have a nice little backend engine though and the programmer did a fine job.
It seems it will always be SEO vs. the engines and the dance they do together.
and I just bought from one in a very competitive area. their site is a PR5, with affilite links that point to it using javascript. I did a search on what I bought using 3 different keyword combinations, and they never came up within the first 10 pages.Here is the kicker, at least half the people I know who buy this sort of product online, buy from this company. Virtually all their advertising is by giving out promotional freebies with their orders. And it's quality stuff. Stuff you will use and other people will see. You get a weekly newsletter from them, that is only around 10% sales pitch. 40% is useful information about the activity, and 50% is links to useful articles that they have found on the web. I have even seen them freely link to a competitors articles because they have confidence in their relationship with their customers
So now we know! Sasquatch is GoogleGuy and he just bought WebPosition Gold.......
or maybe not?
