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It seems Google can't please anyone these days.
What is the root of it all?
a) The Florida update?
b) Big - just plain bigness (everyone loves to pick on the big guy)?
c) Poor management?
d) Public relations dept screw up?
e) Competitors planting seeds of division?
f) All of the above?
Google is run by the programmers. Programmers crunch code, not sell throughs. Hence there apparently is no real-world testing of this stuff before they unleash it. That unleashing can, and I believe is well documented in this thread does, wreck havoc to the sell-throughs of paying, and unsuspecting customers.
The programmers who crunch code also seem it find a good idea to not clue their frontline, read that customer support staff, into the real goings-on. And there apparently isn't much, if any, sharing of new types of complaints amongst the customer support staff which keeps them in the dark about real world problems and enables them to whole heartedly deny that any problem exists when clearly it does.
G isn't being built, or run, for us. I'd suggest that the programmers spend a day or two in focus groups of real users once a month - to see and hear the real world consequences of their actions.
I remember Google first coming up and remember them being great because of their search. Fast and relevant and they hung their hat on that. Just a search box and a fast and relevant search. I think the search is still pretty relevant but has been exploited just a bit with spam and bloggers first exploiting a weak part of the algo. So relevance has taken a ding here and there and from looking at the results Yahoo's is looking nice. At this point i just wanna know when can we expect the Google portal? I know you started out being all about simple relevant search but times change. I think it's time you start looking at site stickiness because just search ain't going to do it in today's market IMO. Google portal and hopefully by this time next year, i have a few friendly wagers that you will:) You have everything you need, i can imagine a portal like Yahoo or MSN, a place for bloggers to login to their account, latest news, the search box, login to google email account. You have googlemail.com and googlechat.com registered. Think about it, Google Chat Rooms with targetted advertising. Site stickiness is the way to go.
As for GMail, I still don't quite grasp what all the fuss is about. Anyone here knows perfectly well that someone at your ISP if they really wanted to could read your email unless it is under some sort of strong encryption.
The only mistake I see with GMail is that Google said that even after your terminate your account with them - the email would still be around on their servers someplace - potentially forever. That is something they need to rethink I believe - and perhaps could go a long ways towards quieting down some of the privacy complaints about their new mail service.
My three cents.
Jim
Google's CEO may say there will be no I.P.O. this year, but one only has to visit SEC.GOV and do a search on EDGAR to see they have filed for" Registration of sale of securities." for both Google Inc. and Google Technology Inc.
I guess in truth, he could say Google, Inc. will not be doing and I.P.O., yet Google Technology could.
If there is no I.P.O., it could be for many reasons, public relations being only one. It could also be there is or was a problem that would adversely affect any such I.P.O. or might cause a problem later with the SEC.
What could one such SEC problem be?
Basically anything that could be viewed as manipulating earnings that the company knew or later learned could not be maintained (the Florida update and it's algo.)
It there was such a problem; both Google, their investors and future stock holders would best be served by waiting and fixing the problem, thus enabling them to show more reliable earnings.
As for GMail, I still don't quite grasp what all the fuss is about. Anyone here knows perfectly well that someone at your ISP if they really wanted to could read your email unless it is under some sort of strong encryption.
... and your bank manager could run off with all your money, and your solicitor could shaft you big time, and your doctor could tell the pharma companies about your medical problems so that they could target you for drug sales, etc.
The point is that we put trust in these people through necessity. We have no option and this is not a real comparison.
It seems Google can't please anyone these days.
What is the root of it all?
I think one of the reasons for the furore is that Google has gone from being an uncommercial, "people's friend" organisation to one that now seems driven by the maximization of profit through the spammy techniques that they once deplored. And some of this at the expense of people's privacy.
And pleeeease, don't anyone else say that we don't have to use Gmail. I know that. You know that. But the people that are Google's target market in this either do not know it or do not care.
Having said that, until a couple of weeks ago I was not aware of any real Google outcry outside of this and other forums. The press reports that I was seeing before then were largely complimentary. In Brett's words, it certainly seems like a real "PR screw up" to me.
I'm sure you were the sort o kid who stirred sticks in hornets nests and then stood back to see ... :))
<<Google Chat Rooms with targetted advertising. >>
It's called "google groups" ....
My issue with "g" isn't about how much traffic it sends me ...it's about it's so obviously chasing the money while at the same time telling me its not doing it ....
And that for my own searches it wates my time so much by providing me such "gamed" crap since Florida ...
and then tells me "it" can't see the spammy psuedo directories ..I have seen comments from "google guy" on every subject under the sun except this one ...so I have to assume that for google they are not a problem
And copyright ....which for now I wont start in on again .....
I think one of the reasons for the furore is that Google has gone from being an uncommercial, "people's friend" organisation to one that now seems driven by the maximization of profit
Spot on!
Its the complete change which is uncomfortable. There's nothing wrong with making profit and we were probably all a tad naive to beleive that Google could grow and develop in an uncommercial form. All of those cheap 'nix boxes and bandwidth must cost a fortune. We almost classed Google as part of the open source movement.
Google still has a very strong brand image and on an individual basis I bet that the majority of people still think of Google as "an uncommercial, "people's friend"". I think that the upsurge of anti Google noise is in reaction to that. Some folks are seeing Google's current love affair with money as a kind of betrayal of trust (OK I know that's a bit of an exageration but you know what I mean).
In the UK we had a Conservative Goverment that had a major (pun) push on promoting family values and honesty. Every one knows that politicians have sex with their secretaries and take back handers from any commercial organisation that is prepared to give them. The UK electorate didn't punish the Conservatives with 16++ years in oblivion for sleaze they did it because they appeared to have betrayed our trust in a hypocritical way.
If I was Google I'd be searching for ways to restore the balance and regain some of the trust that they may have lost/be losing.
Best wishes
Sid
The way I see it Google are either pushing towards getting rid of people like myself who have found a way of making the web work for them and are now looking for more and more paid contributors, or they have just screwed up and have meddled too much with their algos.
Either way they need to know the level of feeling from the people who use the web to make a living. A high profile thread like this is just what was needed.
I would suggest as well that a brainstorming thread is put together in order to gather suggestions for ways that web users/professionals can POSITIVELY provoke change in the Google mentality.
I have looked at threads where web masters have been racking their brains in order to found out how to get back to where they and their clients were before this mess occurred. They have obviously burned the midnight oil and spent hours doing this, all I suspect, to no availe. It is not their fault...It is Googles. They should forget the technical nitty gritty of how and why and concentrate on an old fashioned demonstration. Tell Google how people feel, let them know the adverse effect they are having on peoples livelehoods, find ways of canvessing change, have ideas and make suggestions for alternatives to Google.
If people using this forum don`t do this and now, the only way forward will be Pay for advertising. Thats not the web, thats Yellow pages.
Google is run by the programmers.
I think one of the reasons for the furore is that Google has gone from being an uncommercial, "people's friend" organisation to one that now seems driven by the maximization of profit
Both these views can't be right!
My guess is that Google is trying to make a great push forward in order to create more distance between themselves and the increasing competition. Only time will tell if they will be succesful.
Hence there apparently is no real-world testing of this stuff before they unleash it.
I'm sure Google is now doing that off-line, but at some time you have to roll out algo changes into the real world, and the results may not be exactly as anticipated. I think the mistake Google made with Florida was not necessarily the change in the algo, but in implementing it as one big change rather than phasing it in. If the results started causing complaints then they could have backtracked a little.
They did ...while you were out ..."Brandy"
