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If you speak to all the best Internet Marketing Pros they tell you SEO is a waste of time longterm, everyone in the industry has lost their position at somepoint from what I gather - or am I wrong?
I want to hear from anyone who has had long term success with SEO say for 6 months or longer....
This means that as a webmaster you either have to adapt to the changes or get independent from them. You can collect lots of inspiration for both options here at WebmasterWorld and indeed in this single thread.
SEO is an abbreviation for "search engine optimizer." Many SEOs provide useful services for website owners, from writing copy to giving advice on site architecture and helping to find relevant directories to which a site can be submitted. However, there are a few unethical SEOs who have given the industry a black eye through their overly aggressive marketing efforts and their attempts to unfairly manipulate search engine results.
That is Google's own words, why should anyone doubt what they are saying. I know they are only protecting their client but the easiest thing would be to warn people against SEO. There is no doubt in my mind SEO when done correctly is a good thing not just for Google but for website visitors and the Internet in general - there is a lot of things gonna be coming in the future all running over this thing you call an Internet. Google is only one part of this, I think it is really important everyone communicates.
Google have made an effort to add a page, I have seen the page change a few times over the past 6 months. It is adding more information to the page and has already been moving up the SERPS.
Im my opinion why would a search engine who can benefit not from profit but from an extensive database optimised by professional people like everyone here be against such undertakings? It does not make sense for them to upset this valuable resource short term nor long term, the benefit from a business point of view is too big. The market is vast and varied, Internet Advertising/Marketing does not have to compete with Optimisation they all have pros and cons. If Google is getting a better database and capitalising on Internet Advertising just like Overture who cares? When SEO is performed, the client is happy, Google is happy and the people doing the work is happy (if everything runs smoothly) And the person doing the work is making the search engine better.
Why can't we make the search engine better?
Just because we have had problems in the past does not mean things can not be done for the better in the present or future. Can Google learn by mistake? Can we learn from mistake? In my opinion DMOZ are struggling with the amount of requests they get, they have a huge job on there hands.
This is due to the fact they are a closed shop in the sense that they work on their timescales and on their method of thinking. Google can't take this chance, they are the market leaders in search engine services for a global market. My conclusion therefore is SEO longterm can not be a waste of time, I do not have the history some of you guys have but I have a fresher picture of the future.
Is flash a good thing? Is multimedia a good thing? Is the Internet a good thing? Is SEO a good thing? In MHO the answer is yes...It would be a good time for someone in Google to make a formal announcement to the SEO community. If we all work together from now on everyone wins.
Am I just being naive? Is Google to big for SEO?
No no no no. There is ZERO evidence that many of the pages that took hits in this update were quality. Far far far from the truth.
We really should walk down that famous "gift basket" site that wound up because it got booted out of the serps in that NY Times article. Go look at that site. Google is generous to even list it, let alone in the top 1000. We will leave that investigation as an excersize for the reader.
The bottom line here, is many people believe their site is worthy and ready for the big time near the top of the power keywords. Fact is, very few are. It takes many years to get a site well positioned in Google and most just don't appreciate that.
Most of the fault belongs to google for sticking with an algo that generate such stale results for 4 years that they trained a whole new generation of webmasters to EXPECT and almost DEMAND undeserved rankings.
Starting to make sense why the 'dance' is over? eg: trying to unring a bell is never fun.
1)When will this become stable?
2)In the past I used my kws in
-title
-description
-keywords
-link (anchor text)
-density(8-12%)
-h1,h2
-bold
-italics
,I did that as I heard these things will help to get a good listing and my site is of good qualify, more than 100 pages of quality information.Am I getting penalty for the stuffs I mentioned above? With or without the title,link,density,.... I believe I am a good site. I want to ask whether to keep the above said, so called SEO tricks?
Aji
I don't know what you consider "power keywords" but new sites can break into competitive search terms on Google within weeks, not years. Even without using any spam techniques whatsoever.
I launched a site and was #5 for a 6,000,000 two-word phrase within weeks. No spam, all organic links.
This new update may make this more difficult, but that just means Google will be less fresh and relevant.
70-100k backlinks in less than a week.
With that many backlinks pointing to me, I wouldnt care if Google existed at all.
undeserved rankings
ouch
I think there may be a few webmasters here who don't fall into that realm.
Google changed the rules, folks will adapt, the spammers that didn't make the NYT are still there. Like a casino, the house always wins.
70-100k backlinks in less than a week, mine is three months old, I know how I managed 100.
Nothing is in our hands now. Our sites have become a football, jumping from one extreme to the other.
Aji
I don't think this changes anything for the long term-- as long as the search engines utilize a method to calculate results, there will be those whose job it is to harness these methods.
I'm intimately familiar with the markets that I follow closely. I run several non-profit informational websites, two commercial sites, have been a consultant for many, many more over the last three years ( both design and SEO ).
In certain areas, there is a 20% relevancy on the top ten search results. That is 8 out of 10 irrelevant websites in the top ten. I was able to exactly identify the problem with the new filters in one key niche market, and yes I've reported this to Google.
I think those claiming that these search results are the new and improved ones would be embarrased if they studied different markets.
The confusion comes in when there are too many variables at play; it can be difficult to isolate exactly what is happening. However, find a market with fewer players with key terms and phrases triggering a filter, and it becomes easier to track what is happening ( with larger markets, it is difficult to account for PR and link anchor text ).
This has nothing to do with commercial vs. non-commercial websites. One of my non-profit websites has remained untouched through the whole update, and one has taken hits via filtered word combinations. Both will weather any Florida hurricane due to content still being king.
In one case, a site ranks #1 out of 3.6 - 7 Million search results for a two word combination, but isn't listed for a four word combination containing the first two ( the second two being a specific demographic location ). The website triggers a filter based on the demographic location ( I'm sure this only happens in extremely popular tourist destinations where there are companies literally writing content all day long every day to try to capture all key terms that reference the location )... The point being, is that the site is more relevant for the four word combination than the two word combination, and the four word search results now return a 10% relevancy ( 8 out of 10 pages are not relevant to the topic, and the two relevant pages are directories ).
The Florida update is point and case for the need for SEO professionals. I've seen posts of at least two businesses ready to go out of business because of the recent update. I've seen other posts where people are rushing to redo their websites. Any professional website architect worth their salary would be handling all of this with calm, and any company that has listened to a qualified professional would currently be diversified enough to weather the storm.
I'm personally making very small changes to compensate for where I see Google going. These are good changes, as the methods used have only been because that's what its taken to move from number two to number one. I'm happy to see the new direction, but there is no getting around the fact that major adjustment are needed to Google's current calculations.
These changes will come, or Google will begin to lose search engine market share. They will be eaten alive by the press if this continues, as there are some absolutely halarious results which would make wonderful satire articles.
I have three articles I'd like to write in fact, concerning specific search results and the Christmas Season Shopping Season ( and these are with search queries of at least four words, not single or double keyword combinations ), but I've only written one out of respect to Google's long standing excellence and dedication to the freedom of information via quality search results.
I put up 12 more organic content pages over the weekend to compensate for some loss of traffic for three websites ( which means I've been sitting here all weekend ), and drew up two "I told you so" proposals for clients who now, amazing at it seems, are willing to take content development a bit more seriously.
This is not exactly how I wanted to spend my weekend, but I've enjoyed following all of this over the last week!
- Jason
Can the experienced members of this forum please offer some specific guidlines as to what we need to do. It seems that GG has encouraged us to build sites with content, get backlinks and indicated that we would be OK. This is not now the case. Is GG here to offer any guidlines (or hints) as to what is causing the problems? In the last upheaval he at least calmed everyone by giving us guidlines as to when things would return to normal. If this is now normal what do we need to do?
Dave
It takes many years to get a site well positioned in Google and most just don't appreciate that.
I really don't see why time should be a relevant factor in an algorithm. If a site has content relevant to the search term then it should be ranked well. The only way time is a factor is the growth of page numbers within the site that are related to the subject, and the number of backlinks that accumulate. Both of these factors can be done in a very short space of time, rather than organically.
You're making blanket statements about the quality of sites that have bombed in the SERPS for keyphrases without actually looking at the data. Smacks of arrogance to me. Making 'I'm alright, so you lot must be spammers' statements isn't the kind of utterance I would expect from someone who is supposed to be an authority.
I have new sites bordering on the spammy that are doing well for their major keywords after the update, and I have established sites wearing big white hats, lots of pages, lots of relevant content, that have disappeared for not particularly competitive terms.
This to me makes a mockery of this update as an improvement of the algo. Fair enough if my spammy sites dropped. Thats the risk you take. But I'm not seeing that pattern. I don't see any pattern really. Quality sites are not winning in this update. It all seems pretty haphazard.
I'd argue that Google's current round is quite well focussed, but I'm sure I'm in the monority here.
Things look perfectly OK with the Google SERPs to me.
My web pages are the same or up in the SERPs and traffic from Google is up resulting in more cash flow.
But what do I know, I don't have more than 500 posts to my credit. Perhaps my time has been spent developing web sites
using Brett's Guidelines rather than extensive "searching for the truth" on this Forum.
I've disagreed with Brett very frequently.... but never more fundamentaly than now.
Do you imagine that all these complaints, and on every webmaster board (not just here), are simply people whinning because they have lost placement? Don't you think it is strange that totally different people on totally different boards are all quoting exactly the same symptoms in terms of poor quality results?
They are quoting them because they are there. Low content inner pages, with little value, all over the place. Focused niche sites, leading industry information sites, gone. And as quoted by a number of people, even adult sites returned in mainstream searches.
You may think Google should update their algo, but the SERPS speak for themselves. The bottom line is the quality of what is delivered to the user... and in this respect Google has blundered big time. I wish it were not so, but it is.
I have not taken a big hit, one or two terms across a range of industries from one man band sites to full affiliate sites, so not too bad.
Try searching content management uk
