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Google doesn't rank #1 for "search engine"

     
5:20 am on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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While peeking at the density of some of our own beloved Mr. Brett_Tabke's pages I noticed something funny. Searching for "search engine" in Google does not return Google as number one; actually at this current moment (06-15-03) it is AltaVista.

There has been some speculation here and there as to whether or not Google tweaks its own, i.e. PR10. In a recent post GoogleGuy claimed this was not so. This #4 placement in Google has set it in my humble mind and opinion that they do not as stated by GoogleGuy. [webmasterworld.com]

Q: Are the ODP and Google sites naturally occurring PR10 (PR11 for Google?) or is there some manual intervention for larger sites to ensure they have suitable PR?

A: It's all natural.

6:52 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Let search results fall where they may. :) I actually like this result a little better because it helps show that we're impartial, and if a user is already on Google then they don't need Google as a result for the query search engine. ;)
7:09 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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...impartial unless you search for "best search engine" ;)

"worst search engine" is anti-webmasterworld. It's a conspiracy!

7:10 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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So it's a double bluff then GG?

It's been tweaked down to show you are impartial ;)))

How can AV be number 1 for search engine? Google's definately messed up there!

7:15 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Google is dropping. They were #1, last time I checked they were #3, and when you checked they were #4 - Now they are #5.

At this rate - google won't be in the top 1,000 pages by the end of the month :)

[search engines] gives a completely different result - with dogpile being #1.

...it helps show that we're impartial...

likely story - you are just doing it so we think you're impartial...
7:17 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Must be respect for your elders, they're obviously past it now, but in their time.....
7:38 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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so what? :)
8:13 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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As per the SK suit Google's SERP's are purely an opinion of Google, Inc.

It appears that Google Inc.'s opinion is that Altavista is the most relevant result for "Search Engine" ;) This seems to be backed up by Altavista as they believe Altavista is the most relevant also.

Although ATW doesn't share this opinion it does say "AltaVista provides the most comprehensive search experience on the Web!"

Inktomi also concurs that Altavista should be placed above Google.

Temoa has Altavista 9 places ahead of Google.

So it appears that most major search engines agree that Altavista is the most relevant result for "Search Engine" :)

8:23 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Thread.. getting.. too.. self-referential... Must.. reach... back... button....
9:10 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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>>At this rate - google won't be in the top 1,000 pages by the end of the month<<

Adwords til their rankings recover?

9:19 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Perhaps Google is suffering from a semi-penalty;).
Seriously though, they do rank #1 for allinanchor:search engine, and they have the highest pr. Search appears on av and Google. Engine appears on neither. Except in AV's meta keywords. But Google doesn't read those,... or do they.
And as a father, Thank You:)
9:20 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Adwords til their rankings recover?

We need to start adding links to our pages. I used to have my profile site as google.com, but took it down cause some people seemed to think that suggested I worked there. Look what happened :)

self-referential...

I didn't even know what that meant for sure - look at the crap you can find on google for those words:

This sentence has three a's, two c's, two d's, nineteen e's, six f's, two g's, five h's, ten i's, two l's, twelve n's, nine o's, five r's, twenty six s's, sixteen t's, four u's, four v's, eight w's, four x's, and two y's.

They still are a good search engine no matter what google tells you. Oh wait - I get it now.

9:49 am on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Google could argue that it's a directory.
12:38 pm on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Since the "all natural" discussion has moved over here, I'll quote my own thoughts from the GoogleGuy Q/A thread:

Q: Are the ODP and Google sites naturally occuring PR10 (PR11 for Google?) or is there some manual intervention for larger sites to ensure they have suitable PR?

A: Itís all natural.


I'm still working over the "DMOZ/ODP PR is natural" statement in my mind.

I'll buy that its natural to the calculation, but circumstances surrounding its backlinks are unnatural.

While other mirrors of the ODP aren't indexed and don't count as backlinks [google.com], every page of Google's Google Directory mirror links to the ODP home page (dmoz.org) and also links to dmoz.org/about.html and these links do count as hugely valuable backlinks. Just a sidenote, the "about" page has even more backlinks (30,000 more [google.com]) and a PR10 compared to the home page's PR9.

So in this sense, it is not natural, whether you want to make the case that the other mirrors should count or Google's mirror should not. Based on their own standards, no mirror should be indexed. It seems to me that google sought to boost the importance of the ODP in this manner while maintaining the integrity of the PR system.

I'd be curious about your reaction to this, GG. As websites go, the ODP isn't the worst thing to pimp, but I don't its link popularity, pagerank, or status can be called natural phenomena.

Tell you what, give me 2,060,000 backlinks [google.com] from directory.google.com and we'll call it even. ;)

12:48 pm on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Google is dropping. They were #1, last time I checked they were #3, and when you checked they were #4 - Now they are #5.

Replace "Google" with "My site" and you have the status quo. Dominic's hit just about everyone. Whose idea was it to mimic the hurricane naming convention?! :)

1:37 pm on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I did a google search for 'best search engine' guess what?

Google #1 even though 'best' is nowhere to be found in their tags or content on the page resulted. I know linking and all that comes into play...but the first word in a given search is heavy weighted too. The later results did have best in the gathered description.

Maybe when 'objective' becomes 'subjective' the pigeons roost near home...

I love Google, but the Google I love is the one that got them where they are...the past months have been terrible.

Just at the time 'Google' became a pop-culture known name--they stink up the results with old stuff and spam.

As of this very moment just being the biggest doesn't mean you are the best.

Google has all the corporate kick having all the major players on their client list with Yahoo! and AOL, but they really need to get their house in order.

The calling for patience--which has been happening for months on end with excuse after excuse is becoming to sound like denial rather than a responsible entity that sincerely means to improve and become relevent.

The Titanic was a marvel the world over...

And no guys this isn't belly-aching. What I am saying is just sound business practice. The music about Google being all everything all everywhere has been playing so loud for so long that we are not hearing the lyrics Google is belting out over the past while.

There is patience and there is common courtesy. When you go somewhere for over a long bit of time and something smells, how long are you to wait before saying "Hey guys something died in here"

1:45 pm on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Maybe Google want to be humble. :)

We know who is the best, we don't need a 'search engine' to tell us which search engine is the best.

1:47 pm on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Besides, you don't use a "search engine" any more - you "Google". (I think they have that keyword covered...)
7:44 pm on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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>"worst search engine" is anti-webmasterworld.

Try it and you'll know why :)

8:05 pm on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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you "Google". (I think they have that keyword covered...)

That is shocking! someone really needs to fill out a spam report on those guys!

Talk about duplicate content!

And each one of those high PR domains has a link to their main domain!

How many exclamation points can I use in this message!

8:08 pm on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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>Besides, you don't use a "search engine" any more - you "Google"

Not!

At this point in time, for me it's Altavista first, then Google - if needed!

8:13 pm on June 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Check out the newest results on -fi. For "search engine", AV is now at #13 and Google at #22.

Completely different SERPS... what do you call that? an up...?

4:41 am on June 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Since Google's tantrums I've moved towards ATW. Having said that, I have recovered 100 links in www3 at 5.45 this morning.
4:50 am on June 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

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hahaa.. ya know what.. I used to live on google traffic.. with the mess google has created I think people have been switching.. I was shocked last week when I looked and sales were down like 10 percent and like hardly any of the sales were from google. Knock on wood big time.. imagine what it could of been if google didnt go messing things up... I think alot of people are slowly moving to ATW web though because I thnk I have had a record number of referals coming in from them. I personally could not find what I wanted yesterday on google.. Floormats for my car, original Nissan mats... how dissapointing.... well I hope google straightens itself out, cause I did like google, alot. Days are always limited in technology though...
5:17 am on June 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Google and (the former) Inktomi have a team of reviewers that manually manipulate results.

However, they really can't come out and say this, and they DO work towards a more automated process. But humans must always get involved, that will never change, and a small team of referees will always exist.

5:17 am on June 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

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"worst search engine" is anti-webmasterworld. It's a conspiracy!

Try it without the quotes. Pretty darn accurate if you ask me.

7:46 am on June 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Helpmebe1 - each day my logfiles show more and more referals from ATW, and I'm converting good business from them.

I'm convinced that whatever this Google Tantrum was about, it has cost them dearly and the recovery will be slow.

Even if we all got our previous results returned and then better -would we be as loyal to Google or take ATW a little more seriously?

7:56 am on June 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Have you tried searchshuttle.com?

It ranks #1 for 'most relevant search engine'(no quotes).

mysite.com ranks #1 for the keyphrase that has been dropped buy google.

Obviously, this means Google is broken.;)

Oh my GAWD is it a slow shuttle.

<added>Hey Brett, how about "o/'" (no quotes) to represent no quotes. The smiley could be a quotation mark with the circle-crossbar through it</added>

4:34 pm on June 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

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"search engine" LOL.

Talk to us when anyone but Google cracks the top 10 under "google".

I've watched the keyword "google" since the very beginning. One time [searchengineworld.com] holder for 3 months of the #1 spot for "google" under google and for 3 years under "google" on Inktom/direct hit powered engines ;-)

11:09 pm on June 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

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"dumb search engine" returns yahoo.com as #1.
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