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target="_blank"
I can see why certain on-site functions would be best displayed in a small new pop-up window, but the issue here is for external links.
Why do people use this function this way?
If I wanted to stay on one particular site while surfing the 'net, I'd right-click the link and select "open in new window" or even better, "open in new tab".
But no, many web developers decide it should not be my choice; they force me to open the link in a new window, which results in me simply closing the new one, opening the link in a new tab and closing the old tab. That takes perhaps 5 seconds each time, and is very annoying.
So to repeat my question: Why do people use this function this way?
Is it because they think "regular" people are too stupid to decide for themselves how to browse the web?
Or is it because they are afraid to lose customers?
-In that case; should real world stores refuse people to leave as well?
Imagine a store owner saying this to a customer:
-"Oh, so you want to leave? Sorry, no can do. You may however visit these other stores that are in the same building, but don't leave and remember to come back, you hear?"
How stupid does that sound? And I think it's more or less the same thing really, because either way, someone are trying to control what you are doing and take away some of your valuable time while doing so.
I really think the web would be better off without this, or am I missing something here?
In any case, please share your opinions.
Why do people use this function this way?
They want to minimise chance of you not coming back to their site since this parameter is usually used to open external sites. You'd be suprised how many people don't know that they can right click and open site in a new window.
You'd be suprised how many people don't know that they can right click and open site in a new window.
Or Shift + Click a link in IE to open it in a new window.
I see your point about people not knowing how to use their browsers, but I still don't think everyone should be punished for some people's ignorance.
And regarding "minimising the chance of you not coming back":
What about my example of the similar real world situation? You want to force your customers to stay in your store and expect to have a good relationship with them?
Perhaps I'm being unreasonable, but personally I find it really annoying.
You want to force your customers to stay in your store and expect to have a good relationship with them?
In real world they use nice automatic doors for you to come in, but if you want to go out you will have to push them on your own ;)
I suppose its possible to modify Firefox to make it ignore _blank parameter, in fact it is definately possible, might even be trivial.
But that doesn't solve things for non-Firefox users.
Do people appreciate that links pop up? I can only speak for myself, but I don't like it at all. There are some legitimate uses, but mostly (IMO) it's being misused in an attempt to control users. Which I think is bad.
I don't think web developers should depend on browser-specific features that override the original intent. I think ultimately the people that use the internet, and not the ones that develop it, should be able to decide for themselves how to use it.
But I agree, it's a nuisance for most people and you get better results assuming people know how to find you again, or use the Back Button - one of the most universally understood browser features.
I think the practice goes to the very early days, when the first round of total newbies hit the web - they were newbies to computer interfacces altogether and could be very clueless.
It's a fear-based motivation on the website's part. Taken to its extreme it gave us those awful sites that kept looping you back, breaking the Back Button, etc.
if you're an affiliate marketer with lots of product links, you don't want a visitor to leave and never come back after only clicking on one.
-Yes, that's what you, as the affiliate marketer wants, but what about the users? Do we want to irritate them by making their surfing decisions for them?
How do you feel personally when encountering such things? Shall you not do to others what you want them to do to you? ;)
I only use it on product pages, and not on content pages. I don't use it on internal links, regardless. If users are irritated by target="_blank" in the context in which I'm using it, not one has felt strongly enough to tell me so (and a link to my e-mail address is readily available on all of my pages). I'm very successful doing what I'm doing -- my product pages yield a 150% clickthrough rate, which means many visitors are clicking through multiple times. Without target="_blank", I seriously doubt my clickthrough rate would be as high. I also get lots and lots of return visitors.
<offtopic>
But another thing regarding no complaints from users (this is generally speaking, not pointing fingers here); while I personally get annoyed a lot by poorly designed and coded web pages, I never complain about them (unless I have really good reasons for doing so).
Thinking as a user: I may think that the page suck, but what can I do about it, and why should I do it? It's easier to just accept it and ignore it.
I would think that this is common thinking amongst users.
(I don't have statisctics on this, only my own lively imagination)
Interesting thought; how many of my users think that my web site suck, but don't bother to tell me about it? :) Would be nice to know.
</offtopic>
IMO, many web developers fail to see the realistic importance of their web site, and so they figure every outgoing link should be in a new window, when it's really inappropriate for that specific web site.
Either that, or perhaps they have, as already mentioned in this thread, a fear of loosing customers.
(again, generally speaking, not pointing fingers :)
Also IMO, the best web developer is probably one who don't have anything to win by doing dirty tricks.
But the best bussinessman is probably one who don't mind some dirty tricks. ;)
When you click on an external link, valder, you expect it to open in the same window and if you want it to open in a separate window you can take extra action to indicate that.
When I click on external links, I expect them to open in a different window - I like separate websites in separate windows - and if I want them to open in the same window I can take extra action to indicate that.
I get similarly frustrated when I click on a link which is not obviously marked as an external link, find that it opens a different website over the top of the one I'm already reading. Because then I have to go back and then shift-click. For me, someone who doesn't make their external links open in an external window is trying to control my browsing behaviour. And I don't like it any more than you do.
Some websites behave the way you want them to, some behave the way I want them to. But the best solution is that the user should have an override option in the browser which allows the user to choose how links to different domains open (eg. in the same window, in a new tab or in a new window).
A matter of being judicious in its use, it seems to me
You also have to look at the function of the page. My affiliate product pages have one function, which is to send clickthroughs to my merchant partner. I present every opportunity for a visitor to my product pages to click through, hopefully more than once, and very little opportunity to do anything else. If there was a course called "Affiliate Marketing 101," that would be lesson number one.
In my content pages, however, I link freely to external sites without requiring a reciprocal link in return -- unlike many affiliate marketers, who often would rather not link out to other sites at all or only do so when reciprocated. My attitude is that if you give (unreciprocated links), you will receive (spontaneous backlinks), as long as you also present original content that many users will find to be of interest or value.
Example for Checkpoint [w3.org]
10.1 - Until user agents allow users to turn off spawned windows, do not cause pop-ups or other windows to appear and do not change the current window without informing the user.
I usually find W3C's advice the best, but how about if we turn the above quote up side down:
You may use this feature when it seems the best thing to do, until (and only until) user agents have the option to enable certain external links to pop up into new windows.
Hehe, could that be something of a solution or is it just plain stupid? :)
No, after giving it a little more thinking, I know what would be better;
replace the attribute "target" with a new attribute that says "this link would best be opened into a new window". Then people can set the appropriate option in their browser to open suggested links in new windows or not.
Or perhaps just rewrite the browsers into using the "target" attribute for that purpose. But that's just another way of saying exactly what W3C is suggesting in the above quote, isn't it? :)
(Oh no, I've been rambling again.)
I guess I'll stick to the sensible recommendations by the W3C then, as always. :)
Gah, it's way too late for me to be thinking, good nite.
Maybe that's an appropriate way to reciprocate to sites that open our pages in frames.
If a site gives completely phony links, .php&site=123 and the like, I won't link back at all. -Larry
There is NOTHING that cannot be found somewhere else online. Almost always without "extraneous idiocy"....
There is NOTHING that cannot be found somewhere else online. Almost always without "extraneous idiocy"....
--unquote--
Merely giving you my reasons for using it in the specific situation in which I do use it. There's usually more than just one side to an issue. Have fun on your high horse...
The more I read about css3, the more I like it. I hope they will implement those target properties in the final recommendation, it would make the web somewhat better for all (as long as browsers make good use of it).
I'm really looking forward to the day css3 is recommended and widely supported by browsers.
<base target="_blank" /> is nice as well ;)
The n00b here doesn't recognize that code. In any case, I see this as a opinion issue -- some like it, some don't. You may feel strongly about it either way, but it doesn't make you right (or wrong).
I spend a great deal of my time in forums. Most forum software is designed to open new windows when you click a link in a message. I prefer it this way, maybe only because I am used to it.
My browsing habits have become similar to my forum treks in that I tend to right-click and select "Open in New Window". When I forget and just click, I'm irritated. That happens when I am in a site that is just part of the main attraction, its forums. I expect the whole site to use similar behavior, whatever it is.
This is how I am building my new site. It's heaviest traffic is in the forums. I am slowly building pages for the rest of the domain and am trying to maintain a consistent look AND feel throughout. I expect I would have unhappy visitors that are adamant about this issue no matter what I did. I just do what I think is best over all.
Grump
I expect the whole site to use similar behavior, whatever it is.
Right on - that is the overriding factor.
We've had this discussion quite a few times through recent years, and my impression, overall, is that people who are quite familiar with browsing the web usually do not like the site to take over what they feel should be THEIR browsing decisions.
At the same time, not everyone is that familiar with web browsing...yet, so depending on your target audience, you may get better results one way or the other. Even some very "famous" sites open external links in a new window.
Here's an idea - something I've never read online but it wouldn't be hard to test. GO for a month without target="_blank" and for another month with it. Then compare stats - espeically page-views per unique.
I don't think most technical choices are just a matter of opinion. Even if one way is better for one audience, and another for a different audience, still, these things CAN be tested, and if you have any question at all about your given use, then it's good to devise a test -- after all, why guess?
Has anyone done any testing about the effect of target="_blank" on site stickiness or (even better) conversions?
