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Usage of <h> and <b> tags

should I be concerned?

         

jimun

4:12 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The site I work on is to promote widget accessories and our dealers that resell them. Here is how I have used the <h> tags:

1 Main Title=<h1>
2 shared border titles=<h2>
1 subtitle=<h2>
1 long sentence (company description)=<h2> (lower on the page)

All text has <b> tag except 1 line in italics.

Currently the site is at #2 or 3 in the serps in keyphrases, should I be concerned about the over usage of <h> tags and bold text here?

g1smd

5:21 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Run your code through [validator.w3.org...] making sure you tick the box for "Show Outline", "Show Source" and "Verbose Output".

You may need to also select the DOCTYPE and Character Encoding options if your page does not already contain those tags (so HTML 4.01 Transitional and ISO-8859-1 are most probably the options to use).

On the results screen, scroll down past the error list, etc, until you reach the heading marked Document Outline. Look at the results there. If they do not look like a summary of your document then you are abusing the tag.

The tags should be used for headings. The headings are given a higher weight than the rest of the page. If absolutely all of the content were in heading tags then the content would rank the same as if none of it were in these tags.

Don't overdo them. I don't think you need to worry too much about the bold text; the same comments do apply but not to such an extent. Bold text has a very small boost, probably hardly noticable.

jimun

6:10 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks g1smd,

I ran the validator and to me it looked good except the first line said:

A level 1 heading is missing!

I not sure what this is referring to. It was greyed out with the left border title. The next line listed the main title and then the other titles. I use frontpage 2002 as I am not a programmer and the shared borders are the MS shared borders. The top border does not have a title in it, it has a graphic logo and a navagtion table. The one long sentence with the site description has over 300 characters in it. Does this still sound safe? I have been reading about this through the forums and I am trying to make sure I stay within Googles Guidelines as well as for other search engines.

pageoneresults

6:20 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



You should seriously consider using the FP Include Page feature as opposed to the Shared Borders. The Shared Borders generate an excess of html bloat and I've seen some problems with spiderability of those Shared Borders.

While your validating your html, check out the Spider Friendliness [searchengineworld.com] of your site.

If you see the spider is picking up the content in the Shared Borders than you are okay. I would still highly recommend that you replace those Shared Borders with FrontPage Includes.

jimun

6:38 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks pageoneresults,

The spider tool picked up all text including the borders. I just reworked the site about 4 or 5 weeks ago and I stopped using frames and decided to use the shared borders. I did use the include page feature to change info on about 400 pages that list our dealers around the country. At this time it would be a chore to go back and change to FS includes. So at this time I will hold off unless I come across more reasons to switch. Again thanks.

pageoneresults

6:42 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



So at this time I will hold off unless I come across more reasons to switch.

Okay, would 50% less code be reason to switch? Would cross browser compatible code be reason to switch? There are many pitfalls to using those Shared Borders. Since I've been working with FP for over 7 years now, I've seen the light!

It should take no longer than 15-30 minutes to replace all shared borders with includes. You build your include pages, then do a find a replace routine to replace the shared borders.

martinibuster

7:00 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



All text has <b> tag except 1 line in italics.

This is a misuse of the tag. <b> and <strong> are phrase elements meant to indicate a stronger emphasis. The correct use of these, and the <h> tags is to organize your document according to a hiearchy of what is important.

<title>(indicates what the document is about)
<h1> (repeats the title)
<h2> (can state what a section is about)
<h6> (states what a section is about, but less important than h1 or h2)

<b> (indicates that something is important relative to what the point of your section is)

This is similar to (some will say exactly to) creating a college level essay according the Strunk & White Elements of Style [amazon.com] Textbook, where they teach you how to organize your thoughts into a logical order of importance, down to the order of the sentences within the individual paragraphs.

Same thing for a web page.

[edited by: martinibuster at 7:01 pm (utc) on May 19, 2003]

jimun

7:01 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



pageoneresults,

When you say build the include pages, do you mean as in my shared borders and then the routine find and replace would replace my shared borders with the include page? Also I just learned how to set up css for the background and fonts that I use. Can I use a find and replace routine to use my css file for all pages as well? Pardon me if are simply questions, I am tring to learn more little by little as I work on this site and a couple I work on from home.

worker

7:35 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I just tried, and got a fatal error that I did not have a DOCTYPE and therefore, the site could not be validated.

Is a DOCTYPE statement necessary? I have two fairly large sites, and neither have one of those.

If it is not in place, is there any effect on search engine placement, or crawlers?

Any info. would be appreciated.

pageoneresults

7:41 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



When you say build the include pages, do you mean as in my shared borders and then the routine find and replace would replace my shared borders with the include page?

It has been a long time since I've had to fiddle with Shared Borders. I won't touch a site if they are being used.

I believe you can turn off Shared Borders with the click of a button in FP. You would then need to go in and insert your FP Include code where appropriate.

Can I use a find and replace routine to use my css file for all pages as well?

I don't think the F&R routine in FP is that robust. You may need to manually insert your external css file reference in the <head> section of your documents. Once this is done, you'll never have to touch them again.

The FP find and replace routine will allow you to replace individual lines of code. It will not allow you to replace multiple lines of code or code that is on separate lines.

jimun

9:02 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



pageoneresults,

Thank you for the info. I am going to check it out and practice a little bit on it before actually rework the site.

I was tring to find the forum guidelines for submission do you have the address? I have tried ato ask a couple of questions in an on going thread and got no response, but when I start a new thread I get a reponse. Is it better to start a new thread then to try to ask a question in another thread that has some relevantcy. I just want to be sure of how I should use this forum in the right way.

Worker,

You do have to use the DOC TYPE. I might not be the one to answer your question, but I had to use it and I believe that it does not affect the spidering. I also see that it can be removed after you get your information. Hope this helps. Someone else might answer this better that see it.

pageoneresults

9:07 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Is a DOCTYPE statement necessary? I have two fairly large sites, and neither have one of those.

It's only necessary if you are validating your site. Without the DOCTYPE, the browser is forced into quirks mode and may not render some of your html the way it should be rendered.

You can force the DOCTYPE declaration by choosing it from the dropdown at the validator. Most will use the HTML 4.01 Transitional.

g1smd

9:15 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



... as per Item 2 of the post at [webmasterworld.com...]

Hester

1:39 pm on May 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Please note that all header sizes must cascade. You can't go from <h2> to <h6>. You can only go from <h2> to <h3>. And then to <h4> etc.