Forum Moderators: open
But I dont want to give 3 more links for the category because the additional links would be my competitors - who are not smart enough yet to be listed:)
Will the 3 new links be added?
Can I complete the application and not list 3 new links and yet have any hopes of becoming an editor?
That's one of a number of reasons why I don't and haven't tried to, if I'm honest. Some of the other reasons have to do with the tension I would feel between work and ODP and the pressure to be whiter than white - I find it relaxing every now and again at the end of a design stint to go and edit in a country with which I have absolutely no connection.
As far as "bashing" goes, take a search back over the forums in the last 12 months and you will find some fairly ummm, forthright, comments (as well as some support) from some very senior members here. Part of it, I think, is that some people don't believe that there is such a concept as "disinterested" and part of it is that there is a great difference in mindsets between those who think the ODP is a benefit and those who think it is a self-interested pile of dross.
It's just one of those great internet religious wars where the dividing lines are deep - Microsoft/Linux, Notepad/WYSIWYG, top-posting/bottom-posting...
Anyone familiar with the respective industry, who is confident enough about his own business to prevail even in the visible presence of an arbitrary number of competitors.
I don't seem to see any documentation at dmoz that relates to most of the previous posts
Most of what has been said is clearly stated on the page you get to see when you click the "apply as an editor" link. For example, you'll find the following phrase there:
We work hard to make the ODP a fair and impartial resource for Web users. The ODP is not to be used as a way to advertise or unfairly promote websites. Editors who are primarily interested in promoting their own or clients' sites, and/or discriminating against their competitors' by manipulating site listings may have their editor accounts revoked without notice.
If a category does not have an editor, who reviews and accepts new editors for this category?
The editors in categories above that one, plus there are a number of editors who can edit everywhere in the directory, without being explicitly listed there.
I don't see that, not even for the sites that have been listed.
Take me, a marine widget lover wanting to buy a new sub-aqua widget. I look up Widgets/water/under in Google Directory (more likely than DMOZ itself) and I either find:
1. Lots of sites listed -- so I can stroll through and find the best supplier for my needs and locations. I'm happy.
2. One or two sites listed. I may not realise that is because the editor is censoring and suppressing competitors. But I am very likely to assume the Directory is a low-grade source for what I want. I'll look elsewhere, perhaps in Goggle direct. And the censoring editor runs the risk that my "low-grade" assumption has rubbed off on their listed site.
A high-grade category will attract buyers and everyone gains. Would you prefer to have an ad in a mass-market magazine that also carries competitors' adverts, or be the only ad in a magazine no one reads?
I appreciate the help. Maybe this has been enlightening for others as well.
This would make you the exact sort of person the ODP doesn't want as an editor. You sound like the sort of person who is applying solely to get their site listed quick and avoid the possible delay of it languishing in the queue for the next year or 2. Please note that I am *not* accusing you of being such. However, for a meta reviewing your application it would sure seem that way if you didn't want to submit sites of your competition.
>The editors in categories above that one, plus there are a number of editors who can EDIT everywhere in the directory, without being explicitly listed there. [emphasis added]
That may be the answer to the question that was intended, but it's the wrong answer to the question that was actually asked. True, higher-category EDITORS can EDIT SITES. But they do not handle NEW VOLUNTEER EDITOR APPLICATIONS.
Staff and several groups of volunteer editors collectively called "metas" handle all offers to edit new categories -- whether from current editors or new victims. The metas are usually "experienced" (in internet time) -- with thousands of edits over months or years. They will not usually be listed as editor in the small categories where new applicants start out. Of my categories, maybe half a dozen are suitable for new volunteers. Go figure: multiply that by 100 metas, and divide by 400,000 categories.
>The editors in categories above that one, plus there are a number of editors who can EDIT everywhere in the directory, without being explicitly listed there. [emphasis added]
That may be the answer to the question that was intended, but it's the wrong answer to the question that was actually asked. True, higher-category EDITORS can EDIT SITES. But they do not handle NEW VOLUNTEER EDITOR APPLICATIONS.
Staff and several groups of volunteer editors collectively called "metas" handle all offers to edit new categories -- whether from current editors or new victims. The metas are usually "experienced" (in internet time) -- with thousands of edits over months or years. They will not usually be listed as editor in the small categories where new applicants start out. Of my categories, maybe half a dozen are suitable for new volunteers. Go figure: multiply that by 100 metas, and divide by 400,000 categories.
From your first words I would not suggest you to be an editor. Once you change your mind about DMOZ and rather than thinking about them as competitors think of yourself as being a leader in the industry and help grow the directory large you should apply, if you cant do that just submit your site :)
Wrong answer.
If I became an editor, of course, I would add my competitors listings - if they apply.
Dodgy editors are unlikely to do this, dodgy editors keep out anything that will impact on their site.
Dodgy editors can find "reasons" to reject competitors that apply. For example "deep link", "site not obtainable", "not sufficient unique content", "multiple submissions", "affiliate site", etc or indeed just leave it in unreviewed.
I have had a number of editors removed for being "dodgy" ( and indeed some editors that to me were out and out "dodgy" have not been removed, but of that I make no bones)
To my mind, as a webmaster, I would ideally like my sites reviewed fairly, but given the unpalatable choice between a dodgy editor maintaining his fief and rejecting my submission, and the submission waiting in unreviewed for a (very long) time because of a lack of editors, then I would take the wait and hope for a fair review
Reject dodgy editors ;)
There really is no paradox. The ODP wants editors skilled and knowledgable in a topic, and has no barrier to people with sites/commercial interests of their own editing in these categories. What ODP wants is *fair* experts. Some people get pleasure cheating at solitaire. pearl is an example of a person who should never be allowed to edit any category. ODP doesn't want primarily selfishly motivated editors, even if some do exist.
ODP wants people who make categories that become the best resources on the topic on the Internet. That means impartially identifying and listing all the quality sites that meet the guidelines. That's it.
You can't hide your true nature very long around here... ;)
I'd really worry in this person's case if they wouldn't be that way. Even if they don't intentionally make a concerted effort to keep out the competition, you get a feel here as an editor this person would always look for the slightest excuse to reject a submission for a competitor.
Pearl wants to edit a small category, in which her own site is to be housed.
Pearl does not want to actually submit any competitive sites.
By definition any other sites in that small category are competitors
Therefore Pearl will never willingly add any other sites to the category.
Therefore (unless competitors submit sites) the category will never grow :o
Sure, it won't keep ALL the unsuitables at bay, but does a pretty good sifting job nonetheless.
I can't be sure of pearl's intentions, but the way I read it, pearl doesn't not want to submit her competitiors, only to be rejected.
Can't say I blame her for that. She doesn't get in as an editor, but they get into unreviewed, and possibly reviewed soon.
This however is the wrong logic.
1. DMOZ was/is designed for researching topics of interest... not commercialism.
2. Competition is not a factor in research potential.
3. The three listings provided, provides credibility of your knowledge of quality information of the topic - it also weeds out whose potential editors that only want to edit so to develop their commercial niche.
4. "acceptance of the listings but decline of application" - even if this is the case, your application would not be declined because of a competitive nature.
Maybe you selected too high of a category.
Maybe your application had too many spelling or grammar errors.
Maybe you projected yourself in the wrong manner.
Maybe you simply did not read DMOZ guidelines and not familiar with an editors respected duties.
In all of these cases -- you can rectify the problem, and resubmit.
Many editors do not get accepted on the first attempted.
The only thing you likely will not be able to rectify - is becoming an editor for the wrong reason.
Yep. Looks to me like her real interest is adding her own sites; however she would be willing to add competitors also if the; asked. She sounds like the sort of person who after becoming editor would quickly add her own site(s), and then vanish. After all, why hang around if all further editing would just help the competition get added more quickly?
We often believe competition is "bad" but this is a very narrow vision.
A logical reason for adding your direct competitiors (purely from a commercialized perspective) is making that particular category more of an authority page in its own right.
The more information that is available, the more diverse the topical subject matter is projected, the greater chance non-commercial sites will believe this category has "real" value to their audience, and thus link to it.
The more links and topical anchors, the more relevant the category is and the more PageRank is transferred to you (if you are there).
In addition, since these pages are directly related to your site topics -- your link here (from your site pages) is imperative. "On-topic" authority page/site -- you can't lose.
All competitors on your theme (that have a quality perspective) must be here in DMOZ, if not DMOZ loses, DMOZ visitors lose and you lose much more than you think.
Short-sightedness rarely offers any fruition.
However, I never received a response.
Note: I don't have any websites that pertain to the categories so I have no financial interest or other agenda. I am just knowledgeable in those fields.
It is a shame that DMOZ "controlling editors" fail to respond to add new editors, sites, or categories for whatever reason.
All I know is that new editors are being added all the time, and the ODP has thousands of active editors. As for what is happening in your case, I dunno.
We add people all the time, sometimes a few hundred a week.
We don't want people so self-interested that they will do little other than add their own sites to their categories. That appears to me and other metas like a waste of our time reviewing their applications. We want the directory to grow and keep growing, and we would prefer to have editors involved who won't quit after getting a particular site listed.
If your application is rejected, the sites suggested do NOT go into the unreviewed queue.
12 months ago I applied for an adult category because I would have fun editing it and have no personal or business interest. I was rejected within 72 hours of applying for unknown reasons or at least i can't remember the reason given.
Last week I tried to find something that doesn't yet have an editor and that interested me to a degree. I applied again, this time for a category in the Health/Medical section that does NOT currently have any editors assigned to it. I was rejected within 12 hours of applying because the category was too busy or too important to be given to a new editor, specific text was "Although we would like you to join us as a volunteer editor, you have chosen a category that is already well represented, or is broader than we typically assign to a new editor."
Note that this category was 4 links off the root. I.e. dmoz.org/one/two/three/four and did not have an editor at present.
Yesterday I went one category deeper down and re-applied. That application is still open.
So to sum it up, dmoz seem to take good care in selecting new editors, perhaps too much care. I have taken great care in selecting stuff that doesn't relate to how I earn my money, that interests me and where I do have a level of expertise so I can contribute in a meaningful way and been rejected every single time. The application process is difficult and I cannot see anyone who honestly declares his business interests / affiliations being admitted to a related category. Sure, some will slip through the net by lying but I am sure if dmoz find out, that person's reputation is going down the toilet and his or her access would be revoked, i.e. as I envisage in this case: [webmasterworld.com...]
While there is no obvious way to tell this from the categories, if you can apply deeper, you almost certainly should. While six or seven site categories may seem absurdly small, those are places to apply, add three sites, deal with any queue, see that all descriptions are good, look around the internal forums, then apply for broader permissions.
