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But I dont want to give 3 more links for the category because the additional links would be my competitors - who are not smart enough yet to be listed:)
Will the 3 new links be added?
Can I complete the application and not list 3 new links and yet have any hopes of becoming an editor?
Your ability to be unbias and list sites that should be there based on their merits of quality is bias by your own commercial interests.
This is likely the single greatest reason why editors get banned from being editors.
It is also likely the single greatest reason why DMOZ.org continues to have a tarnished reputation.
I highly recommend staying away from categories that you have something to directly gain from.
You lose - regardless of whether you do something wrong or not.
If a complaint occurs... and warranted action is necessary, your own listing can be banned as well as yourself.
Good intentions, can quickly turn to temptation, and bad choices.
[edited by: fathom at 6:54 am (utc) on Feb. 28, 2003]
Will the 3 new links be added?
Yes, your 3 links will be added to the unreviewed whether you are accepted or not.
It would save us from moving country and finding an ISP that Dmoz actually likes!
Then you actually don't want to be an editor.
Nick
But I dont want to give (3) more links for the category because the additional links would be my competitors - who are not smart enough yet to be listed
If you don't want to add more listings to the category, can I ask why you want to be an editor in that category?
it's also possible that your competitors (that are not smart enough to be listed) are waiting for their sites that they submitted months ago to be reviewed and added.
I don't think as a general rule people should stay away from cats they have an interest in though. Often, they're the only people with the expertise to edit that category. And there are plenty of people who are open about their affiliations and don't let that affect how they edit.
hmmm... I may have overstated my position.
I don't think as a general rule people should stay away from cats they have an interest in though. Often, they're the only people with the expertise to edit that category. And there are plenty of people who are open about their affiliations and don't let that affect how they edit.
In many, many cases a person's passion, and knowledge often does revolves around their commercial interests (or what they do for a living an not necessarily their hobbies), so yes, I agree that these are the editors DMOZ.org needs.
Quite frankly - my passions are submarines, sonars, acoustics, marine life and anything with oceans. A former life (and my handle). ;)
You have inspired me to apply, thanks :)
Hard to fathom!
There are plenty of other categories that you can edit because you want to! :)
My 2c!
Scott :)
1) Webmasters who get their sites listed in the ODP think it's fantastic.
2) Webmasters who can't get their sites listed in the ODP think it's corrupt becuase they feel that there are editors who will list their own site but not list their competitors' sites.
3) The same webmasters who can't get their sites listed in the ODP would like to join the ODP to list their own site but not list their competitors' sites.
Erm...
* The real issue with ODP-bashing in this forum is that most of the instigators feel more of an affinity to the corrupt ODP editor than to the honest one. *
A lot of people say they believe in it, but what they really want is just that their candidate be elected and their rivals defeated.
Someone who truly believes in democracy wants the will of the people to prevail -- they understand that it's not about individual candidates winning or losing.
In the same way, someone who really believes in the aims of the ODP wants it to list all sites with unique content. And they are willing to donate their time to acheive that.
<off-topic assertion>Badly run democracies can lead to the sort of world where one leader (who got half a million votes fewer than his nearest rival) wants a war to overthrow the regime of another leader (who go 100% of his popular vote).</off-topic assertion>
Let's hope the ODP doesn't end up like either of those.
I do not want to give DMOZ any of my competitors sites in advance. Who in their right mind would want that?
If I became an editor, of course, I would add my competitors listings - if they apply.
BTW, it was interesting to read about "democracy" and all that. I am not really trying to achieve world peace or anything like that:). I just want to get a site in the listing - and keep out listings that don't belong. Is that fair enough?
Will the 3 new links be added?Yes, your 3 links will be added to the unreviewed whether you are accepted or not.
I cannot confirm this. About a year ago I applied as an editor for a small bottom category and was refused within 2 days. Apart from still lacking an editor, the category still has not these three valuable sites added. (Yes, they fitted in this 7-site-category. No, I did not reapply.)
jan
The OPD "mission statement" says: "The Open Directory Project is the largest, most comprehensive human-edited directory of the Web."
[dmoz.org...]
As an editor you have every right to exclude sites that "don't belong".
But as an editor, you don't have "competitors" -- so you can't define "don't belong" as my "competitor".
As an editor, the job isn't to sit back passively and wait for submissions. If you know how to make the ODP more comprehensive by listing a site -- then do it: that's the job. That site belongs in the ODP whether or not it belongs to a "competitor".
If democracy is too big an analogy, try this: "I am thinking about becoming a first-aider so I can provide cover at sporting events. How can I do this without having to help the fans of rival teams?"
The real issue with ODP-bashing in this forum is that most of the instigators feel more of an affinity to the corrupt ODP editor than to the honest one.
Not true, paranoia by ODP editors perhaps. I would say most "bashers" here are bashing in order to try to improve the ODP system. The web (and webmasters) need ODP, but it stops a long way short of perfection!
WebmasterWorld is one of the few places where open discussion of the problems of ODP can take place without the mindless attacks that occur in some forums and the mindless censoring that take place in other forums.
In the case of Pearl, I guess the problem is "honesty" (if that is the word). The reasons for joining are clear, but are being expressed openly, in the case of some/many ODP editors, one suspects that those are the reasons for being an editor, but are not stated.
Corruption/abuse within ODP is a problem. Bringing it up and debating it ought to be possible without ODP editors retreating to their bunkers and calling the heavy artillery.
I suspect Pearl is not the sort of editor material that DMOZ is looking for, but can but try to get accepted!
...not the sort...
hmmm... love how you worded that cornwall!
I (fathom) therefore must be the kind of sort, that gives that sort, a bad name! ;)
And that is where you are totally missing the point. It is also why you will probably never be an editor, or will not last long if you do become one.
I am no apologist for DMOZ - in fact I think we are near the top of each others s*** list - but I have an issue with people that just don't seem to "get it".
"Not true, paranoia by ODP editors perhaps..."
There is always some of that from a few editors. If you bash the category arrangement, then you are accused of bashing the editors in those cats.
[edited by: WindSun at 3:07 pm (utc) on Feb. 28, 2003]
I missed the job description you must be referring to. Can you post a link?
Seems like dmoz would let people know what the requirements are before they apply. I don't remember reading anything about that when I applied.
I'm just trying to educate myself on this important matter.
You should never be allowed to edit.
"I just want to get a site in the listing - and keep out listings that don't belong. Is that fair enough?"
No.
These issues are tough enough to sort out even for an impartial editor, much less one who is not willing to but business interests aside to make the category as comprehensive and accurate as possible. This is the kind of stuff that DMOZ gets bashed for and tries, however ineffectively, to root out.
I am not sure what you are reading, but it hasnt been my post.
pearl wrote:I am thinking about becoming a dmoz editor.
But I dont want to give 3 more links for the category because the additional links would be my competitors - who are not smart enough yet to be listedWill the 3 new links be added?
Can I complete the application and not list 3 new links and yet have any hopes of becoming an editor?
I realize that you are only asking questions - but you do need to appreciate members feedback, and warnings.
2 actual DMOZ editors have responded to your questions providing sound advice.
Your idea to only list your competitors if they should happen to submit their own site may not directly violate the literal phrasing of the editing guidelines. But it is certainly diametrally opposite to the intentions behind those guidelines. Since you're an expert in your field, you'll probably know about all the relevant sites, including your competition. Once you have accepted to be an editor (should they ever accept you), there would be no excuse to deliberately avoid listing them right next to your own site.
And of course, since you may not include your own site(s) in the three demonstration listings of your application, and since every other site in the field may be in competition to yours, the answer to your original question is a clear No.
Part of the editor's job is to make the category as accurate and comprehensive as possible - including adding sites that compete with one's own. That's why DMOZ is leery of editors with a commercial interest in their category. It's a natural reaction to say, "I can be impartial, but I'm certainly not going to proactively promote my competitors." Unfortunately, DMOZ needs editors who WILL, in effect, promote their competitors.
I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, Pearl, sorry if it sounded like that. I just see a potential conflict not only with seeking out new sites for listing, but also in description editing. Editing descriptions is really tricky - you want to eliminate transparent keyword stuffing, but at the same time insure that the description is accurate and that you haven't left it entirely devoid of useful keywords. Being reluctant to help competitive sites would make this task even more difficult.
Seems to me that people with actual websites and some expertise in the industry would make the most qualified editors.
Again, I don't seem to see any documentation at dmoz that relates to most of the previous posts (although I appreciate hearing your opinion and guidance).
Again, just trying to learn something here.
If a category does not have an editor, who reviews and accepts new editors for this category? An editor for a higher level topic in the directory?
Thanks again.
