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Site gone again from Inktomi

Head bashing starting again?

3:57 am on Nov 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Looks like my PFI site is gone again off Inktomi. My "free" site is also no longer on inktomi. Whatever algo they are testing, it sucks.

Anyone else notice the same pattern that occurred last month?


9:45 am on Dec 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I'm also stumped. All the dropped pages were in Zeal (Looksmart's non-commercial directory), though I have other PFI pages also in Zeal which are still in.

All the dropped pages have unique content, which as far as I know has not been duplicated elsewhere on the web. I used the same template on a series of sites, but that does not seem to be the problem as 3 of the sites using that template are still in.

If anyone has a new theory, post it here and I'll see if it applies to my pages.

BTW, the "dropped" pages are still in the index if you do a domain:mysite.com search, but they are not showing up in any other results. Not even "mysite.com" searches.

10:29 pm on Dec 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Snort - that is exactly what I am seeing. I wonder if INK is treating one of your internal pages as the homepage? That may be what is going on with mine, but I have no idea. Just shooting from the hip.
11:16 pm on Dec 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Several different problems here, so don't try to group them together. All my pages are completely gone, except my pfi page. I have to "laugh" about that... any search for text on my pfi page does bring up that page, but it always ranks last. I've seen that before when I first pfi'ed my page, but still it makes me feel pretty sick to see it behind all the pseudo-search pages who quote my text on their directory pages.

Anyway, main thing, still no sign at all of my free pages that were removed. Tim said they were working on it, so hopefully that will change sometime soon.

8:47 am on Jan 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

steveb at least you appear to be getting some lip service if nothing else.

All of my PFI pages IF they are even included in the index are on the bottom of the serps.

Inktomi's and its resellers service have become nothing short pathetic in my opinion. I always recommended them to my clients as the first place to lay their advertising budgets, now I don't even recommend them as an option.

3:14 pm on Jan 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Well now how about this... all my non-pfi pages now have been removed by Teoma/Ask.

It would seem to be a much better idea to set fire to your money and your websites before you give it to Position Tech.

11:29 pm on Jan 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

steveb - I totally understand your frustrations (I've had a really horrible experience with PFI) but, I think it's hard to just point the finger at Position Tech . I've seen this problem with other PFI resellers too... which really means that the problem lies with Inktomi and the way that they are treating PFI pages (dropping them from the index). I guess my point is that we can't just point a finger at PT and say that it's completely their fault... Sure... the product they are selling appears to have some flaws, but that doesn't mean that they are the ones causing the bugs. You know what I mean?

It's really frustrating when your pages get dropped immediately after signing up for PFI and nobody really has any concrete answers. But I think this will be a good test to see what kind of a product "search submit" really is. If Ink and PT can get to the bottom of these problems... then that's a really good sign and it will mean that PFI is moving closer to stability.

PT really has offered me some good service and has worked with me to get to the bottom of this problem over the last several weeks. That's admirable considering that I only paid like 60 bucks or something like that. We still have not found resolution, but I'm optimistic that we'll get it figured out sooner rather than later. And when they get this mess sorted out, if I ever decide to use PFI again, I'll use PT.

Fingers are crossed...

6:45 am on Jan 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I also had my site dropped from Ink after submitting a new page that I created from my site using Ink's PFI about Nov 14. Started dropping from their top 5 rankings faster than Legolas could take out an Orc with a bow and arrow. Wrote them on Dec 10 and only 6 pages have come back to their former spots, but I have never got an answer from Ink.

Would be nice to find out more about why this is happening.

3:07 pm on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I'm so glad I found this forum. I've been stumbling through this Inktomi event solo. After reading everyone's posts the good news is, I'm not alone. The situation with my website started the last week of November. I first noticed it with Altavista. I had over 170 links with that SE and now I have zero. The next serious slide was MSN. Same old story. I feel totally defeated. Nothing I try seems to work. Position Technologies hasn't responded to my emails. I chose Direct Submit because my website changes content daily. Really, Direct Submit seemed like a wonderful idea at the time ;-) I'm thinking it's not so wonderful anymore.

Thanks to everyone for posting their experiences. You really made me feel better. I hope this situation straightens out for all of us soon.

Take care,

5:52 pm on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Boy, wish I had read this thread a few weeks ago. I submitted 2 sites to Position Tech a few weeks back and it says the sites are included, but they are not. I just emailed them, I'll let everyone know if I get a response. To bad there isn't a money back guarantee:(


6:21 pm on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Ya - this problem is actually a lot more wide spread than one might think even from reading this thread. I belong to several forums around the web, and I've seen quite a few reports of this exact problem and everyone seems to report that it started somewhere between the middle of November and the beginning of December. Ink definately tweaked something that caused a ton of PFI pages to get dropped. If you are considering PFI, I would suggest that you wait until PT and INK figure out exactly what is going on and get it fixed.

I'm sure that INK gets innundated regularly with emails from people that are mad that their sites aren't doing well and so they ignore most of the emails that we send them when there is a legitimate bug with their PFI program (like we are reporting here in this thread). I think the real reports probably get lost among the roar of the others.

It's important to keep working on this. I suggest that you call PT and talk to a rep and point them to this thread... so they know what you are talking about. Also that you try and send an email to Inktomi support... hopefully it will make it into the right hands.

I know that INK is aware of the situation. If you know others that are victims of this latest problem, please point them to this thread.

10:47 pm on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Well, I just heard back from Position Technologies. They very politely informed me that since I did have "some"activity("some"= 3, yes,3 hits)in December , that perhaps I should check Inktomi's guidelines because algorithms do get modified.

Well, I must say, I feel so much better now.{{{grin}}

11:11 pm on Jan 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I got a response from them similar to this... in my case the 2 clicks were just me testing to see if it worked and them testing to see if it worked. Just don't let it die. Keep trying to get to the bottom of it.
12:05 am on Jan 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

But yesterday I realized that my sites are appearing well again in the serps, I only have 2 PFI at the moment.

I think that INK & MSN is playing around with the algo while the later is playing with their filtering system?
Who knows but it's good to see my sites up there again.

12:50 am on Jan 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

You got yours back? That's great news! Did you change your pages in any way at all or did you just leave them unchanged and they returned?
1:10 pm on Jan 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hi guys, I got a response back and they said they were experiencing difficulties, read below:

Inktomi had a problem with their program which affected many PFI URL's. They are correcting this error and the problem should be corrected in the next 48-72 hours.

Position Technologies, Inc.


3:56 pm on Jan 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I just received another response from Position Technologies. They are admitting there is a problem but informed me that it is a recent issue. At least they're admitting there is a problem. They did suggest that they didn't think this recent issue had anything to do with my problem. All righty then ;-(
4:34 pm on Jan 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I once again contacted PT in regard to Inktomi. I listed the "issues" I was having with Inktomi. I stated that I was not in MSN or HOTBOT. I have no errors on my website and I felt that I complied with Inktomi's submission guidelines.

They immediately responded to my email. They said that everything I stated in email was the problem Inktomi was currently having.

So, I suggest we wait and see. I am impressed with Position Technologies support. We are not being ignored and that's a good thing.

11:42 pm on Jan 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I totally agree. PT has been amazingly good to work with over the last little while.
I have PFI with some other PFI companies too and there really is no comparison when you talk about the level of service.
I'm cautiously optimistic about the latest development. I hope that they get it figured out!
1:07 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

The new site I just paid for ranked extremely well, while the earlier site I paid for was phatoming about with no changes made.
8:39 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hi Guys

By the way great forum have found it most useful, was extremly worried with whats going on at INktomi so i contacted positiontech direct and within hours got this response:-

"Inktomi had a problem with their program which affected many PFI URL's.
They are correcting this error and the problem should be corrected in the
next 24-48 hours."

In many ways i am glad that this is the problem and not them messing around with their algo which would mean me having to change thousands of my clients pages in the long run.

Hope this helps you all

Chris k

3:27 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

This PositionTech problem is really screwing us up. Yahoo flips the switch and Inktomi is all screwball. Nice.
3:42 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

HI Tom

In all fairness mate the problem isnt with positiontech its inktomi, im sure positiontech are sick of getting all the emails on inktomis behalf asking whats going on. While it is a problem im glad it isnt an Algo change as id have to change thousands of optimised pages, that really would p*ss me off.


3:54 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I guess the question is... did Inktomi flip a switch over the past few days and they are correcting that or is this something that they flipped a month ago. Our PFI pages were phantomed out over a month ago (still no resolution and tons of lost traffic). I'm hoping they are fixing the problem from last month.
Those of you who are experiencing problems and got responses back from Inktomi, how long ago did your PFI pages get dropped? Was it back at the beginning of December or just a few days ago?
Chris - you are correct. I agree that this isn't PT's problem. They have the unfortunate lot to be selling a product with flaws right now, but they have no control over that product either. I'm convinced that this is definately a Inktomi problem where they have penalized PFI pages for some unknown reason.
3:59 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Yahoo flips the switch and Inktomi is all screwball. Nice.

It's not only Yahoo. Next week MSN stops using Looksmart and as far as I know Inktomi results will be on top. Because of this I stopped paying for Looklistings a couple months ago and put my money on Inktomi, only to see most of my PFI pages dropped. Get with it, Inktomi.

4:08 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hi Kanetrain

The response i got back from positiontech was that this is a technical fault. Are you suggesting that it may be more than this? i would say some of my PFI pages disappered over a month ago, although i have to say that not all of them have gone and that some of my clients positions have been affected more than others.

Still not happy about it though, if only we were able to take clients money and make as wooly optimisation guarantees as they do!



6:32 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I just checked Hotbot and I'm back in. #1 on several of my keywords. Happy dance. I won't check MSN until tomorrow when they release their new search. I was in their "preview" of the new release.
8:02 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

That's good news. My site is still AWOL.
8:21 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hi Kanetrain,

Keep checking, I know you will get in. Are you showing up on Pure Search? I checked
Pure Search 3 times today and the results keep changing. Mostly to very current listings. Are you in Altavista because I'm still AWOL with them ;-(

Take care,

9:41 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

This is both an Ink problem and a Position Tech one. Where are the posts saying people lost their ineedhits pfi sites? (If any exist then that is a different kettle of fish.) In my case, at the same time, I lose all my free listings in both Teoma and Ink, my pfi in in INK, and my Teoma pfi page ranking for my site title goes from first to twenty-second, behind sites that link to me.

Saying this isn't a position tech problem is anti-reality as we all do business with position tech, not Ink directly. Its Position Tech's responsibility to see that our pfi pages are actually pfi, otherwise what on earth are we paying for?

10:08 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

There are several websites that are not using PT for Inktomi that are having the same issues we are. The Inktomi partner they are using haven't answered their emails. Position Tech has done an excellent job with correspondence.
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