Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.198.23.251

Forum Moderators: open

ISPs Throttling YouTube, Netflix Amz Prime

True Face of Net Neutrality Repeal

     
3:54 pm on Sep 6, 2018 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 13, 2002
posts:14782
votes: 453


A UMass study confirms that ISPs are slowing down YouTube, Amazon Prime, NBC Sports and other streaming sites. The ISPs are slowing down the Internet that YOU paid for, just like WE told you. If you want your advertised speeds back, you actually have to pay more.

To all those misguided people who said the repeal of Net Neutrality was about freedom, enjoy your SLOW internet speed. It's not like you were not warned.

[gizmodo.com...]
4:15 pm on Sept 6, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from GB 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Nov 16, 2005
posts:2795
votes: 124


The same thing is happening in the UK with mobile internet, but the other way. Mobile operators are offering deals that let you use certain sites without it counting against your data usage so those sorts of sites are cheap whereas a smaller competitors would not be.
10:07 pm on Sept 6, 2018 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator keyplyr is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Sept 26, 2001
posts:12551
votes: 833


I can confirm that Youtube & Amazon Prime Movies now buffer quite a bit.

This never happened until recently. I do pay for high speed and get it on everything, but when I access Youtube or Amazon Prime Movies, the buffering starts.

For those who said the repeal of Net Neutrality would not cause this, you were wrong... but of course you knew that.
10:15 pm on Sept 6, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:7045
votes: 387


Everyone knew that..especially Pai and his boss DT..
10:19 pm on Sept 6, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lucy24 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 9, 2011
posts:15112
votes: 676


those who said the repeal of Net Neutrality would not cause this
I think they’re the same people who, a few decades ago, plastered New York state with ads exhorting TV viewers to vote against “the law that will raise your cable rates!” Why were they so dead-set against the proposed law? Because it outlawed cable cancellation fees. (Not early termination of a long-term contract. Stopping ordinary month-to-month cable service, so if you’re living paycheck to paycheck it cost more to drop cable than to continue it.)

If it’s inconvenient for General Motors, it’s obviously destructive to America.
10:20 pm on Sept 6, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 20, 2006
posts:2053
votes: 57


But if my neighbor is a bandwidth hog (I am on a shared neighborhood hub, as are most homes), didn't things improve for me? Haha, they did! I'm a "use more, pay more" fan.
10:41 pm on Sept 6, 2018 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator keyplyr is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Sept 26, 2001
posts:12551
votes: 833


I am on a shared neighborhood hub, as are most homes
Most? That's a pretty broad statement. Actually, I've never heard of that.

I pay for my connection, my usage, not anyone else's. I pay for the fastest speeds my ISP offers. Slowing down that speed because the ISP wants a piece of what the streaming companies are getting, should have nothing to do with me.

Deregulating opened the gate for corporate greed. The ISPs can now throttle speeds to force additional rates from both the streaming companies and the end user.

All the stream companies raised their rates when Ajit Pai announced the end of Net Neutrality. Now we're seeing throttled connectivity speeds by the ISPs.

This will only continue to get worse. Without protective regulation, corporate greed will be endless. As always with these guys, the people lose.
11:58 pm on Sept 6, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:7045
votes: 387


But if my neighbor is a bandwidth hog (I am on a shared neighborhood hub, as are most homes), didn't things improve for me? Haha, they did! I'm a "use more, pay more" fan.

Just means that your ISP is not allocating enough bandwidth..
Our small Breton village ( around 200 homes are internet equipped in a population of just over 3000 people ) has 5 ISPs serving it..All of them offer ADSL , ( 40 MB down 4 up ) some offer fibre ( 1 gig down 200 MB up ) all are run out of one "cabinet" ( what you'd call a hub ) that was installed near the town hall by the original monopoly provider ( was France Telecom, is now Orange )
No one gets throttled in any way..no need to, there is enough bandwidth for everyone ..
All the ISPs packages include..TV ( and VOD..netflix and various others ..and other full HD 1080 steaming..some have 4K streaming, but not much content, for now )..This is in addition to the 40 MB or the 1Gig bandwidth..

My pack details..( I have mentioned them before ) fibre isn't scheduled to get to our villa until 2020..so we have ADSL2..
Full HD TV ( 500 channels French and international ) ..never buffers..
Steaming from Netflix etc , or via the ISP add on( €5.00 per month add on ) ..and or VOD ..
Unlimited internet download ( we have 10 machines here, 4 are always connected and on ) we average around 5 to 10 TB per month just in internet data..son is a heavy youtube user..never seen buffering..
We also get unlimited VOIP ( crystal clear ) to 110 countries if calling "fixed lines" in those countries ( USA is included ) and unlimited to around 20 countries ( USA is included ) if calling cell phones..
Cost? ..at today's exchange rate..about USD 40.00 per month ( all taxes including 20% VAT included )

Cell phone..we have 5 ....3 are on "plans".3G or 4G ( depending on the phone ) ( USD 3.00 for two hours covers calling any fixed or any cell phone in France, on any service provider )..
2 are on unlimited plans ..4G unlimited to 110 countries if calling "fixed lines" in those countries ( USA is included ) and unlimited to around 20 countries ( USA is included ) if calling cell phones..and if used travelling in Europe the same " unlimited" applies..Similar applies if I used them while visiting other countries in the 20 or so..USA included..

If France can have ISPs that offer ( and provide ) these "neutral" unlimited deals, ( and make healthy profits ) at these kind of prices ( which include 20% tax )..surely the USA can..

IMO your ISPs are / were gouging you..and since the repeal of net neutrality the "gouging" has and will get worse..

Btw..we have no "price regulation" in telecoms..we do however have "neutrality" and genuine competition..thank you Free :)

Maybe Bill in Japan will be along to make me jealous ..I think the deals and speeds there are even better ?..
12:12 am on Sept 7, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:7045
votes: 387


Oh..the 2 cell phones that have the unlimited unbuffered 4G data and calls "plans" that I mentioned above..each plan costs the equivalent of USD 20.00 per month..inc 20% VAT..
We also have a 4G "booster" built into our router ..at no extra charge..in case the cell towers that cover us are not 4G..so we can use either wi-fi or 4G with cell phones or portable devices..

The routers all do time shift etc..and are provide a free as part of the monthly payment.. we can cancel any part of ( or all of ) the services at any time with no penalty..monthly "rolling contracts", no "commitment"..

Our ISP ( Free ) was talking back in 2016 about moving into the USA market some time in the future with similar deals ..but I think that was before Pai and "the instability"..
12:10 pm on Sept 9, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from GB 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Nov 16, 2005
posts:2795
votes: 124


But if my neighbor is a bandwidth hog (I am on a shared neighborhood hub, as are most homes), didn't things improve for me? Haha, they did! I'm a "use more, pay more" fan.


I have no problem with use more, pay more per se. That has nothing to do with net neutrality (the only real concern in some places is abuse of monopoly if its just an excuse to raise prices). The problem often is often not enough of use more, pay more - there it is use more, pay more unless you use the sites they make exceptions for (my UK mobile example).
7:05 pm on Sept 9, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 20, 2006
posts:2053
votes: 57


You all are just not informed. NN has everything to do treating different pipes, sites, content, devices, traffic, speed, and every other aspect, at different prices and availability.

And, when you force businesses to not tailor to price and need, the bottom end gets slaughtered.

From wiki:
Several civil rights groups, such as the National Urban League, Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH, and League of United Latin American Citizens, also oppose Title II net neutrality regulations who said that the call to regulate broadband Internet service as a utility would harm minority communities by stifling investment in underserved areas.

The desire to be fair and equal is a strong one, but a misguided one too.
7:06 pm on Sept 9, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 20, 2006
posts:2053
votes: 57


There are many strong arguments against.
[en.wikipedia.org...]

Give them a read, see how they might be things you haven't considered.
7:09 pm on Sept 9, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 20, 2006
posts:2053
votes: 57


And make sure you digest the 3rd paragraph here...
[en.wikipedia.org...]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A widely cited example of a violation of net neutrality principles was the Internet service provider Comcast's secret slowing ("throttling") of uploads from peer-to-peer file sharing (P2P) applications by using forged packets. Comcast did not stop blocking these protocols, like BitTorrent, until the Federal Communications Commission ordered them to stop.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The FCC ordered Comcast to stop blocking BitTorrent?
You think this is a good idea?

[edited by: RhinoFish at 7:31 pm (utc) on Sep 9, 2018]

7:11 pm on Sept 9, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 20, 2006
posts:2053
votes: 57


"In the year 2018, the Indian Government unanimously approved new regulations supporting net neutrality. The regulations are considered to be the "world's strongest" net neutrality rules, guaranteeing free and open internet for nearly half a billion people, and are expected to help the culture of startups and innovation. The only exceptions to the rules are new and emerging services like autonomous driving and tele-medicine, which may require prioritised internet lanes and faster than normal speeds."

So we need the govt to create certain exceptions to this universally smart rule that treats all content (and delivery) as being of equal importance.

My itunes and your self-driving car, the data going to each is NOT of the same value. Net Neutrality generally says it is, and treating it as different would be illegal.
That's nonsense.
7:12 pm on Sept 9, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 20, 2006
posts:2053
votes: 57


"The Wikimedia Foundation, which runs Wikipedia, created Wikipedia Zero to provide Wikipedia free-of-charge on mobile phones to low-income users, especially those in developing countries. However, the practice violates net neutrality rules as traffic would have to be treated equally regardless of the users' ability to pay."

Sound right? Haha!
7:13 pm on Sept 9, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 20, 2006
posts:2053
votes: 57


"In 2014, Chile banned the practice of internet service providers giving users free access to websites like Wikipedia and Facebook, saying the practice violates net neutrality rules. In 2016, India banned Internet.org's Free Basics application, which provides users in less developed countries with free access to a variety of websites like Wikipedia, BBC, Dictionary.com, health sites, Facebook, ESPN, and weather reports—ruling that the initiative violated net neutrality."

Super good idea? NOT!
7:29 pm on Sept 9, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 20, 2006
posts:2053
votes: 57


I also want rich folks to pay thru the nose to get premium service!
And I want really rich people to risk millions trying to come up with the next great thing, and when most of them fail, I applaud their effort!
Though it is counter intuitive, generally, middle class and poor people benefit when there's incentive to innovate and differentiate.
And when they are chasing those with money galore, the wake is often a pretty sweet ride.
I know it's popular to be against any inequality, but think it through, inequality rocks!

Inequality means rich people take most of the risks in life, and we benefit by buying products and services from the few winners among them.
Yay us!

Net Neutrality will slow the risk-based investment of billions, by rich people.

Look it up on your Microsoft Zune!
[en.wikipedia.org...]

Connect via Global Crossing!
[en.wikipedia.org...]

I like to see billionaires going broke now and then, not poor people who can't get internet access.
Haha, mom said I was different. :-)
7:43 pm on Sept 9, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:7045
votes: 387


And yet..here ( France ) we have net neutrality, and services , speeds and prices that make the average USA services look 3rd world, and the prices , speeds, bandwidth and "allowances" a racket..we already have the "sweet ride"..and no throttling..
Your argument falls down on the grounds of what you champion is already proven to be not necessary and counterproductive..
11:51 pm on Sept 9, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Aug 29, 2006
posts:1348
votes: 12


rich people take most of the risks in life

Get back to me when they're at risk of homelessness or hunger.

...
2:59 pm on Sept 10, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 20, 2006
posts:2053
votes: 57


"Your argument falls down on the grounds of what you champion is already proven to be not necessary and counterproductive.."
So if you did find one, or even several places, where let's say it does work well, then that proves it will work well everywhere?
France's population density is 3.5x higher than the US.
If the US had France's population density, infrastructure costs per person would be far cheaper here than it is today.

If the premise of equality is sooooo righteous, perhaps France should help subsidize the costs of internet access in the US then?

And, since we're so be beaten down by racketeers here, and we're such a poor 3rd world country when it comes to the internet, please let's have these great French internet companies come show us how to do it right? Save us France, please, we need your efficiency and sense of fairness, we just don't know what we're doing over here when it comes to internet innovation and access. Please send help! Save us!
3:06 pm on Sept 10, 2018 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 13, 2002
posts:14782
votes: 453


And, since we're so be beaten down by racketeers here...


That's the point of the scientific study. The ISPs are slowing down YOUR Internet services that you already paid for.

Don't allow ideology to become your identity. It comes at the risk of preferring the ideology over actual reality.

This is happening right here, right now.
3:16 pm on Sept 10, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 1, 2016
posts:2095
votes: 549


@RhinoFish your population density argument doesn't stand. Granted there is lower density if you take the country as a whole but the population is not spread out evenly across the entire area. Population densities in urban area's are essentially identical to France's. So yes there are certainly some concerns for remote rural areas but these account for a very small percentage of the US population.
3:56 pm on Sept 10, 2018 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 13, 2002
posts:14782
votes: 453


Speaking of population density, the big ISPs and Telecoms are phasing out DSL in some rural areas. They don't support copper anymore. Once a house is sold the new buyers have no option other than satellite.

The ISPs are NOT spending on high speed Internet infrastructure to rural populations. The ISPs are relying on the government to give it to them for free.

The ISPs refuse to spend on infrastructure. They apparently want the US government to give it to them for free.

This is happening right here, right now.
The ISPs are charging extra for a service you have already paid for.
7:39 pm on Sept 10, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from GB 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Nov 16, 2005
posts:2795
votes: 124


And I want really rich people to risk millions trying to come up with the next great thing, and when most of them fail, I applaud their effort!


No its not rich people. The biggest ideas are usually government funded - like the internet and the web. When big business takes risk they usually have a subsidy or incentive from the government somewhere in it.

And yet..here ( France ) we have net neutrality, and services , speeds and prices that make the average USA services look 3rd world


Are you referring to the EU rules? They apply in the UK, but I still see breaches in mobile networks which frequently have zero rating. It seems to be the case in most of the EU: [reuters.com...]
8:09 pm on Sept 10, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:7045
votes: 387


Are you referring to the EU rules?

If I had been referring to EU rules , I would have said so..I was referring to France, as I said multiple times..
Btw..the article you linked to did not say "most of the EU"..the EU consists ( until the UK leaves ) of 27 countries.the article mentions 3 of them..how you extrapolate 3 from 27 into "most", is as much of a mystery to me as how you think I might be referring to EU rules when I have specifically said "France" in each post in this thread..
8:21 pm on Sept 10, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:7045
votes: 387


Oh..and Altice is only making that "tiered" proposal ( which has not been approved by regulators in Portugal ) and the Wind Tre proposal ( in Italy ) was slapped down..So in reality ..an attempted "breach" in Italy was not allowed, and fro the moment, nor has the attempted breach in Portugal..so in 2 countries companies have "tried it on"..in one they have been told "no"..in the other, it is being investigated to see if it contravenes EU regs..

Your definition of "most" ( one "maybe", that is being investigated, out of 27 ) is really unique..

Altice is so leveraged everyone is just waiting for it to fall over..it is desperate fro money as it's repayments to the banks for the money it has been loaned to fund it's expansion ( it bought SFR in France using entirely loaned money, it is also not #2 here, it is joint 3rd, and fading away fast due to appalling service and coverage ), if ever they get to the USA, ( if they last long enough ) avoid like the plague.
9:05 pm on Sept 11, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 20, 2006
posts:2053
votes: 57


"Don't allow ideology to become your identity. It comes at the risk of preferring the ideology over actual reality."
I'm rubber and you're glue... :-)
9:08 pm on Sept 11, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 20, 2006
posts:2053
votes: 57


"@RhinoFish your population density argument doesn't stand. Granted there is lower density if you take the country as a whole but the population is not spread out evenly across the entire area. Population densities in urban area's are essentially identical to France's. So yes there are certainly some concerns for remote rural areas but these account for a very small percentage of the US population."

Hahaha! Though it may be a small %, the point again, is that equality must prevail for NN. So you don't get to pick out small groups and omit or ignore them if you're in favor of NN.

Which is exactly my point! :-)
9:01 pm on Sept 12, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:7045
votes: 387


Article on el reg..a month ago..
You won't believe this but... everyone hates their cable company: Bombshell study lands
Something to do with ripping you off and treating you like an a-hole while doing so

[theregister.co.uk...]
Yep..you are being gouged..

Before you ask again..I can't claim to speak for the French ( or any other ISPs) , but, if I were them, I'd be waiting at least another 2 years in the hope that the "instability" passes, and the fanned xenophobia abates somewhat, before venturing into the USA ISP market..To begin with, I'd want to be able to bring some cheese with me.. :)
9:34 pm on Sept 12, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 1, 2016
posts:2095
votes: 549


To begin with, I'd want to be able to bring some cheese with me.. :)

You will need to be sure that the cheese is pasteurized... none of that "Lait crue" stuff. The cheese regulator in the US forbids it.

We should start a movement for "Cheese Neutrality"... Too much regulation.
This 34 message thread spans 2 pages: 34
 

Join The Conversation

Moderators and Top Contributors

Hot Threads This Week

Featured Threads

Free SEO Tools

Hire Expert Members