Referendum in Scotland

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

How many people outside of the UK are aware of this year's independence referendum in Scotland (and its implications)?

[ronin]

Perhaps you can tell us something positive that would come out of a no vote Graeme? No one else has been able to.

Though I am personally neither particularly for nor particularly against Scottish independence, the best possible outcome of a no vote could conceivably be a re-emergent enthusiasm in what the United Kingdom means for Europe and planet earth - a celebration that the whole can be worth (much) more than the sum of its parts.

This is not insignificant in a global political environment, where, with the exceptions of Vietnam (1976), Yemen (1990) and Germany (1990), the trend for many decades has been towards smaller states.

That said, I'm not really persuaded that smaller states are a bad thing at all. It strikes me, on balance, that they are more rather than less likely to be able to exercise accountable democracy.

[mack]

There is no guarantee that anything positive would come from a "No" vote, but the only thing we can say for sure about a "Yes" vote is change. Is there really any need for change or is it just change for the sake of change?

Some people have discussed the infrastructure that apparently already exists, perhaps they would like to explain more about that because personally I don't see it.

Tax collection - who how?
NHS - paid for by what?
Armed forces - Current squadies are contracted to the British army.
Central bank - if we don't control that then we control nothing.
Benefits- paid by? Some people do need it.
Our share of UK National debt - before we even start.
EU - do we vote on that? Should we join.
Oil- If we will do so well from it why is the Grangemouth plant running at huge losses?

We have to decide by September, yet the nationalists have failed to deliver answers to so many critical questions. The white paper creates more questions than answers.

So what happens when if we go indy
From that point on, we need to be self sustainable. Is that even possible? Personaly I don't see it.

We need to lay the foundations. Taxation, appropriation of funding to newly formed government departments. Defence, health, education etc etc.

Put simply, if it goes wrong... We become bankrupt.

As it stands we share an economic climate with the UK. Things aren't rosey, but they can improve. Why play a poker bluff when a countries financial future is in the pot.

Mack.

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Mack right now Scotland has no shortage of people claiming that there are no answers. The answers are all there if you care to look for them. As in all elections you have to do a bit of work yourself if you are really interested and the answers are not to be found in Webmaster World.

[scotland.gov.uk...]

[mack]

In honesty, the answers aren’t to be found within the white paper either.

Mack.

[johnhh]

Just had a quick look at the 'White Paper', as I haven't seen it before.

'What happens if Scotland votes no' gets 22 lines as far as I can find.

The rest seems pie in the sky based on broad assumptions, which may or may not turn out to be correct, and the wording is loaded. A few facts would be nice rather than 'A Scottish share based on population would be around', 'will be based on negotiated agreement' or 'Scottish Government envisages'.

The 'Scottish Government may envisage all that, but will the EU and Westminster 'envisage' it. I doubt it.

Still I don't get a vote so as a believer in democracy I will leave it to the Scottish people to decide, either way.

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

The 'Scottish Government may envisage all that, but will the EU and Westminster 'envisage' it. I doubt it.

The terms of separation are enshrined in UK and international law. Much of the other doubts that remain are a result of Westminster's refusal to pre-negotiate.

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Mack, clearly you are a Unionist but do you honestly think that Scotland is incapable of successfully governing itself? If you look at the list of countries that have voted for independence during the last century you will see that very many of them were in a far worse position than Scotland with regard to the ability to govern themselves. None of them have asked to change back to where they were.

It is actually ludicrous to suggest that Scotland would be unable to deal with any of the stuff that the NO campaigners are listing as "problems". We are much more clever than that. And when you look at the countries that are in the EU it is nonsense to suggest that they would ever consider blocking Scotland's membership. Why would they want to block the membership of Europe's biggest oil producer and one of its wealthiest nations?

[mack]

I'm not saying Scotland is not able to go it alone, I just don't think any of the foundations have been laid. At this point in time the things that we will need aren't in place.

I think we have seen the very start of the process of getting the countries resources prepared. If we take "Police Scotland" as an example. A single police force for Scotland. One point of direct funding, funding then distributed internaly as required. The same thing happened with "Scottish fire and Rescue" and the ambulance service (longer time ago) .

Having the service already set up and ready for independence is vital for everything. There are a lot of things that have yet to be fully addresses. Some are coveted within the white paper, but not in nearly enough detail.

If we take taxation as an example because its one if the most important aspects we face moving forward. The white paper gives us some favourable figures, but it fails to cover...

Our equivalent of hmrc:
Where will it be based.
Who will run it
How will taxes be collected
When will it be incorporaded into Scots Law
What are the projections going forward five years.

Our currency:
We don't want to use the Euro
The bank of England doesn't want us to retain the Pound.

If we think of the white paper as a business plan would it cut it? There are just to many answers unaddressed.

Mack.

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Our equivalent of hmrc:
Where will it be based.
Who will run it
How will taxes be collected
When will it be incorporaded into Scots Law
What are the projections going forward five years.

Do you see this as a problem? I see it as an opportunity.

Other countries have managed it. So can Scotland.

[edited by: lawman at 10:13 pm (utc) on Feb 27, 2014]

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Just came across this on the BBC website. Should be of interest to those who suggest that all of the UK should be allowed to vote.

Since 2007, the current Scottish Government has strongly promoted the country abroad - exports of Scottish produce (not just whisky) are rapidly rising and in high demand. Within a British context, Scotland has not been readily recognised as a national partner or promoted as one, and indeed the separate promotion of Scotland in the UK's global engagements was arguably more visible in 1900 than it is today. Constitutional responses have often come too little and too late - there is a nation north of the border, and the fact there is a risk it might become a state after 2014 is a situation which is as much a product of British omission as Scottish action.

[bbc.co.uk...]

[ronin]

Our currency:
We don't want to use the Euro
The bank of England doesn't want us to retain the Pound.

There was a lot of flap about this in the news a couple of days ago.

I cannot for the life of me see what the problem is.

An independent Scotland could have its own currency called "the Scottish Pound" - which could be pegged to Sterling.

There you go.

- It's worth the same as Sterling unless and until it decides to unpeg.
- It's not Sterling so the BoE can't mess about with it.
- It's called "the pound" (S£) so there's nothing new to get to grips with.

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Persactly!

[Old_Honky]

It would make more sense to have a Scottish Dollar pegged to the US dollar.

In the brave new world of independence why cling on to the pound? Wouldn't it just be a reminder of how things used to be. The bad old days or the good times depending on your viewpoint.

By the way I notice we haven't started arguing about the Royal family yet. I think the rump of the UK should pay the Scots to take them off our hands, but it must be all of them, and they must repatriate to the northern side of Hadrian's wall. Perhaps we could just swap them for the Chinese pandas.

The rump of the UK could then become the United Republic of Britain. URB for short.

After the split both countries, as they are no longer the UK, would have to re-apply for EU membership, and NATO. Both new countries would not by right have a permanent seat on the UN security Council.

Divorce is rarely amicable and usually causes one or both parties to considerably reduce their standard of living.