Referendum in Scotland

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

How many people outside of the UK are aware of this year's independence referendum in Scotland (and its implications)?

[lawman]

That was because they did not use the democratic process. We did.

So you think as long as they vote on it any state in the US can just vote itself independent? How about we agree that I don't understand the politics and law in your neck of the woods and vice versa.

[graeme_p]

Most serious attempts secession seem to be violent rather than peaceful: Biafra, South Sudan, Bangladesh (from Pakistan), Tamil areas of Sri Lanka, The Basque region of Spain, Nagorno-Karabakh, Chechnya, East Timor etc.

If you want any evidence of the contempt that many English people (including media people) have for Scots just Google "whinging Scots". Now do the same for "whinging English" and note the differing results

On the other hand the English do not have a special derogatory word for the Scots.

[edited by: graeme_p at 11:37 am (utc) on Feb 14, 2014]

[graeme_p]

An ironic potential consequence of Scottish independence:

If an independent Scotland continues to use the pound without a currency union (which seems the most likely outcome [bbc.co.uk ], then Scottish banks would lose the right to issue pound notes and the Scots would have to use only Bank of England notes,

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

So you think as long as they vote on it any state in the US can just vote itself independent?

Did I say this?

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

On the other hand the English do not have a special derogatory word for the Scots.

I take it you mean Sassenach? Actually it is just Gaelic for Saxon

The English have a few derogatory terms for Scots.

* Jocks
* Sweaty socks
* Jockanese
* Porridge wog

But if you really want to insult us just call us English. It's a bit like insulting a Canadian by calling him a Yank. :)

[Samizdata]

attempts at jocularity

An unfortunate phrase, I'd suggest, if English giggling concerns you.

the English do not have a special derogatory word for the Scots

See above (there is a derogatory word in English for just about everyone).

Sassenach is not one of them, though.

On a more relevant note, BDW is entirely correct that secession is a matter for Scotland alone, both legally and morally, and whatever the decision outsiders will just have to deal with it.

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[londrum]

I think scotland leaving the UK is a bit different than the example of a US state trying to leave the USA, because scotland has always been a separate, distinct country from england
If cornwall tried to leave the UK, then that would be different

I hope they do win the vote anyway. Scotland is always trying to paint england as the bad guy, with london always trying to tell them what to do, but i reckon half the country couldnt care less whether they leave or not. I vote tory, so as soon as the scots stop sending labour MPs down here we'll never have a labour government again -- roll on the referendum!

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

I vote tory

No need to apologise. :)

[lawman]

Did I say this?

I'll be glad to connect your dots for you. Of course that could completely derail this very interesting thread. I don't think that would be wise but I'm not working today and have the time. If you want to continue simply respond to this post.

[Samizdata]

If cornwall tried to leave the UK, then that would be different

The legal technicalities would be different, but the principle would be the same.

If the Cornish wanted autonomy and self-determination, why would anyone object?

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[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Let them go for it if they want it but the difference is that Scotland has always been recognised as a "separate" entity within the UK. We have always had our own banks, education and legal systems. We also provided the king at the time of the Union of the Crowns. ;)

We also created the Scottish Enlightenment, which had such a great influence on the USA.
[en.wikipedia.org...]

[Lame_Wolf]

It's a bit like insulting a Canadian by calling him a Yank.

Or worse still, calling a Texan a Yank.

If Scotland does get their independence, will that mean they will lose the haggis? Afterall, it was English before it was Scottish.

And you wait till summer. The wee folk will be flocking to England to see what a blue sky looks like. ;)

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Wee folk?

[Samizdata]

We also provided the king at the time of the Union of the Crowns

Outsourcing royalty is something England has always been keen on.

Scots, Welsh, French, Dutch and Germans have all had the job.

It was offered to an Englishman once, but he turned it down.

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[tangor]

We also created the Scottish Enlightenment,

My favorite thing from Scotland is the pneumatic tire... such as on my road bike!

Texas is the only nation to become a US State, and under the terms of annexation, we (Tejas) insisted on an option to undo that... not that we have under the annexation agreement (though we defended ourselves during the War of Northern Aggression.

I suspect that should Scotland obtain independence there most likely will be a Common Defense agreement and, after centuries of business practice, some amicable trade agreements.

[Lame_Wolf]

I suspect that should Scotland obtain independence there most likely will be a Common Defense agreement and, after centuries of business practice, some amicable trade agreements.

We'll stop selling Mars Bars to the Scottish. Then they'll have to deep fry something else instead. ;)

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Salmond hits Back!
[bbc.co.uk...]

[Lame_Wolf]

Salmond hits Back!

Why not start your own currency? Trade in irn bru or tunnocks caramel wafers.

There's nowt more sexy than a scotsman in a kilt, and danduff on the shoes. ;)

[brotherhood of LAN]

LW, your sense of humour must come from a different part of the world... lol.

There is the Scottish pound though, Scotland and Canada has its similarities when it comes to larger southerly neighbours... but the Scottish pound is essentially the same as GBP nowadays.

[Lame_Wolf]

LW, your sense of humour must come from a different part of the world... lol.

Oh yes. Even nutters have said I am weird. :)

There is the Scottish pound though, Scotland and Canada has its similarities when it comes to larger southerly neighbours... but the Scottish pound is essentially the same as GBP nowadays.

I know. I used to ask my (English) bank for Scottish notes. They are much better looking than the English ones. Plus, I liked pissing off local shopkeepers with them. :)

Apart from the road to England, Tunnock's caramel logs, and Groundskeeper Willie, what good things have come out of Scotland?

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Unfortunately kilts, haggis, fried Mars bars, irn bru and caramel wafers are the extent of some people's knowledge of Scotland. It is quite sad really but being constantly stereotyped and demeaned by English people is something we are well used to and indeed one of the reasons some people want independence.

[brotherhood of LAN]

Yes those stereotypes are fairly lame, sign of an older, foreign generation IMO :o)

One thing that did (and still might) make many Scots I know seethe is that Scottish banknotes pretty much aren't accepted south of Lancashire, even though they're perfectly legal tender. Same with currency exchange in foreign countries. No chance of me exchanging a bunch of Scottish notes in .ca.

[BeeDeeDubbleU]

Apart from the road to England, Tunnock's caramel logs, and Groundskeeper Willie, what good things have come out of Scotland?

I was making an attempt at a serious discussion but if it is your intention to insult we Scots please carry on. Just don't be surprised if you succeed.

[johnhh]

what good things have come out of Scotland? Billy Connolly ( doesn't live in Scotland ) , Sean Connery ( doesn't live in Scotland), John McAdam ( who didn't invent tarmac that was Edgar Hooley in England ), the Bay City Rollers ( enough said ), Gordon Brown ( well.. ), Alexander Graham Bell ( look where he got us ) + others I won't mention as it all rather boring.

I've actually seen Billy Connolly years ago, I laughed so much it actually hurt.

I was in Scotland last year, my straw poll showed a 'No' vote.

[londrum]

i think scotland has got a massive chip on its shoulder, always thinking of themselves as the poor little victim. they love to paint the english as the big bad bully.
salmond knows this as well as anyone, which is why the first thing out of his mouth when the government said a shared currency wasnt a good idea was that london was trying to "bully" scotland. he knows that line plays well to scots, because you're always looking for another reason to hate the english.

[Lame_Wolf]

Come on BeeDeeDubbleU, you are made of harder things than that. You must know I am only joshing with you. :)

[Lame_Wolf]

Yes those stereotypes are fairly lame, sign of an older, foreign generation IMO

Older, yes?
foreign? To whom?

Amongst other things, I have celtic blood.

I stopped going abroard. It was always full of foreigners. ;)

[Samizdata]

i think scotland has got a massive chip on its shoulder

Many Scots dislike being governed by distant foreigners whose attitudes are increasingly alien.

Most of the Irish thought the same 100 years ago and opted out of the "United Kingdom".

And they had to fight for it.

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[londrum]

It 's not like that though, is it. Thats just how they like to paint it,
they are not "foreign rulers" -- they are part of the ruling government. First of all they've got their own government in scotland, and then they are part of the london government too. In the past decade they've held all of the plum jobs — chancellor, home secretary, foreign secretary, defence secretary, and prime minister too.

The way it works at the moment, the scots always get to vote on purely english matters, but the english have no absolutely say on purely scottish matters. so you could argue that its england who have foreign rulers

[topr8]

... there is no way scotland will vote yes and all the politicians know it ... IMO it is all a ruse by the SNP to get more funds and a bit more devolved power (while still being supported by the UK as a whole)

this should be a non issue and all stems from incorrect use of language way back - scotland is no more a country than england, BOTH of them are just regions within the UK, perhaps they have slightly different laws in certain areas and quirky regional differences but they are the same country.

slightly tongue in cheek >>> ... quite frankly as a top rate tax paying londoner, i'd be happy for london to be independent ... we are subsidising the rest of the UK by the bucketload.

OT ... i thought we didn't discuss politics here on WebmasterWorld? quite honestly this is a very emotive subject although to be fair this thread hasn't got out of hand (yet) but there are lots of brits on this board and it could do.