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Jane, it's not WWII anymore. They don't go door to door collecting scrap metal for the war cause anymore either.
I think you misread my post then mocked what you thought I said. My original post said if "there was another war of World War II proportions."
We don't know what the future may bring.
Realistically, the only way the car makers can survive is if they shed workers and cut salaries.
And what about all the retired workers drawing pensions and health care?
I think I read that GM has 7 retired workers for every current worker.
Guess who's going to pick up those pensions if the car makers go bankrupt.
Guess who's going to pick up those pensions if the car makers go bankrupt.
And health care costs, unemployment benefits, maybe food stamps - just about any already strained state or federal government program for the poor.
[edited by: Jane_Doe at 8:18 pm (utc) on Dec. 19, 2008]
Guess who's going to pick up those pensions if the car makers go bankrupt.
The purpose of auto companies should be to make products and turn a profit because people want to buy those products. Their purpose should NOT to be a government-subsidized welfare program.
Like somebody else mentioned about the retirees, if the pension checks stop, we are all going to be paying for these people anyways.
The Detroit News has a nice summary of the deal on their website, I encourage you to read it before jumping to conclusions.
Guess who's going to pick up those pensions if the car makers go bankrupt.
Luckily, millions of people in North America are a little less worried about their jobs this weekend. A collapse of these "dinosaurs" would have been felt world wide as the greatest consumer society scaled back spending on everything.
Foreign cars simply feel (and sound) like playthings after driving an American car. I've never owned anything but American-made vehicles, and having driven a few foreign cars, I have no desire to own anything foreign-made in the future.
So it's clearly a matter of taste.
Though I gotta say, my first foreign car (gas, not diesel) hit almost 700K. I wanted to go to 750K just to roll over 3/4's of a million but the body was going and my wife wouldn't let me keep it any longer :).
I really haven’t noticed a lot of difference in reliability. All the cars have run well. I have notice differences in quality but I attribute that to the price of the car. The BMW was a well put together car but it did cost three times as much as most of the cars I had when I was younger. I think quality has as much to do with the price tag on the car as anything else.
My favorite car was without question the BMW. It was a great all around car. I traded it for a Corvette and enjoyed that car also. The only problem with the Corvette was that it begged to be driven hard. There was no middle ground with that car. I got older, moved to the country and traded it for a Ford F150. The truck is component and well put together. It does everything I want without any fuss.
My wife currently has a Honda minivan. She had previously owned a GM minivan. She has said several times that she wished she had never traded. As she says the GM van had personality while the Honda is just a car. The Honda is a fine car and does everything well but nothing exceptionally well. I understand what she is talking about, I didn’t mind driving the GM van but I hate to drive the Honda.
Lucky for me, I shouldn’t be in the market for a car for four or five years. But if for some reason I have to buy a car. I would buy a domestic automobile. They are more affordable than the German cars and have more personality the Asian cars.
* had personality while the * is just a car
To me, a car with personality is a car which behaves erratically and responds unpredictably.
That would definitely qualify as personality.
I was only stating my choice. Different strokes for different folks or different cars for different folks.
However, I do not believe the stereotype that domestic cars are junk. My experience is that all are about the same with regards to relative reliability with cost being the most important factor.
I guess we are all victims of clever marketing and our own preconceived notions.
You seem too happy about it Syzygy.
Nope, it's purely a business perspective: the companies concerned are unfit, unable and unprofitable. Time to make way for a better model (in both senses).
Luckily, millions of people in North America are a little less worried about their jobs this weekend. A collapse of these "dinosaurs" would have been felt world wide as the greatest consumer society scaled back spending on everything.
Yup, that's the problem, isn't it? Corporations have so much responsibility - to their stakeholders, shareholders and all those with some sort of reliance on the industry, whether directly or indirectly.
The point is not whether I have glee or not, but whether the companies seeking handouts are worth saving. My view - economically and commercially - is that they are not. They have failed; they are dinosaurs. Time to evolve and let progress, better business models, products, and managers come to the fore...
Syzygy
Yeah, time for a total revamp. I find it appalling that what we have today differs little from what we could have bought over 100 years ago. Fours wheels and a a four stroke internal combustion engine running on gasoline.
Which alternative do you find most appealing?
Which alternative do you find most appealing?
Maybe a lot of it is cultural, we all want our trucks, suv's and assorted urban assault vehicles. But I suspect much of it is due to the monolithic auto companies we have; partly due to their inertia and partly due to their dominance causing impossible to overcome barriers to entry.
So one of the reasons against bailouts (I know it's a bit late now) would be that letting a couple of the auto companies die might pave the way for some new innovation.
They aren't. The US auto industry is in a crisis right now more because of the high price of gas this summer and the current lack of consumer credit than anything else.
Don't forget that the US auto industry has offered fuel efficient compact cars for more than 50 years.
Cars like the Rambler American, Ford Falcon, Chevy Corvair, Plymouth Valiant, Mercury Comet, Dodge Lancer, Ford Pinto, Chevy Chevette, Ford Maverick, AMC Gremlin, and on and on.
The cars were in the shows and available for purchase.
US drivers very often CHOSE to buy larger, less fuel efficient cars and trucks.
Blaming the automakers for building what people were willing to buy is kind strange.
You'll notice that Toyate, Honda, and Nissan have been working pretty diligently the last few years to break into the full size light duty truck and SUV market.
Maybe it's time to start bashing them.... :)
Among other problems Toyota just stopped work on a new US factory in Mississippi.
Cars like the Rambler American, Ford Falcon, Chevy Corvair, Plymouth Valiant, Mercury Comet, Dodge Lancer, Ford Pinto, Chevy Chevette, Ford Maverick, AMC Gremlin, and on and on.
And when was the last year
Those were examples of earlier US models to show how long US automakers had been offering such cars, but I suspect you knew that as well as that US makers still offer fuel efficient compact cars.
Those were examples of earlier US models to show how long US automakers had been offering such cars
US drivers very often CHOSE to buy larger, less fuel efficient cars and trucks.
Prius, Fit, etc
Toyota has just pulled the plug on a new Prius factory in Mississippi because of troubles (low sales?) in the auto industry.
Most people need credit to buy cars and trucks, take away the credit and it doesn't matter if the car is a US make or Asian or German or whatever.
It's a financial crisis, which wasn't caused by the auto industry.
However, there are also many fuel efficient cars (Prius,...
Refering to 2008....
Toyota’s U.S. deliveries have fallen 13 percent this year through November, and Prius’s dropped 48 percent last month.
A faltering economy and financial crisis that have pushed U.S.-based competitors to the brink of bankruptcy is also eroding demand for cars and trucks at the Toyota City, Japan- based automaker, which last posted a U.S. sales decline in 1995.
This isn't about 'bashing' anything. It's about dead ducks in the water.
The 'credit crisis' is a major part of the equation that is currently affecting the insular US auto industry. However, it's acknowledged from all financial and business quarters that the US-owned part of the sector has been in a self-created crisis for a number of years. This is just the end of a protracted death.
US car manufacturers have been listening to the domestic market for far too long and foregoing the needs of the bigger markets globally - that's why they no longer have products most customers want. In many respects this is a straight-forward marketing issue and relates to the life cycle of products and brands.
Also, [delete - won't go into the politics affecting the global markets here as it's not the right platform]
Hopefully, there will be a couple of survivors. Undoubtedly there will be, and those that do survive need to be leaner, more flexible, and must be able to adapt to the bigger markets beyond domestic borders.
Funny though, to think that the automotive industry started in the US with Henry Ford stating 'any colour as long as it's black' and that this philosophy (albeit in more modern terms) is the very reason for its demise.
Syzygy
[edited by: Syzygy at 12:13 am (utc) on Dec. 30, 2008]
