Advanced Match

Can't seem to be able to use it

[dan_popescu]

Hi,

I have a category with around 40 listings. I turned on advanced match for all terms about 30 hrs ago. All terms are showing Advanced Match status. However, if I search for term + extra word my listing only comes up for a few of my 40 terms. I just spent some 40 minutes over the phone with Overture but we couldn't figure out what the problem was. They said something about not all combination of words showing up in MSN or Yahoo, but I used Overture.com and I typed in search term 1 + extra word (listing comes up), search term2 + same extra word (search does not come up). Anyone had this happen?

Thanks.
Dan

[Algebrator]

Same here - I tried it with only one listing - instead of kwd, I typed in #*$! kwd - it doesn't show, xxx could be anything and it still won't show

[Algebrator]

Update
- my broad search shows in Overture but not in MSN or Yahoo. Haven't they said that they were starting to accept overture broad matches about a month or so ago?

[eWhisper]

Advanced match works differently than broad match.

The system analyzes the entire query.
It checks for standard matches.
It then checks the advanced matches.

Standard matches are shown first.
Advanced matches are run through filters.

An advanced match must have everyword in the query - it doesn't broad match similar keywords like Google where 'ring' can be matched to 'jewelry'. It does use stemming matches though.
See: [content.overture.com...]

It then has another algo that determines if the searched for query is close enough to the advanced matches to show. In a lot of cases, 'junk keywords' can't be matched to anything - so no matches are shown.

Now, the above is more sophisticated than it sounds.
A search for 'red widget Alaska asdfe' will usually show an ad for 'red widget Alaska' as 3 out of 4 words are identical.

The search for 'widget asdfead' most likely won't show anything as half the words aren't matched to anything.

Advanced match is good to use to pick up phrases like 'buy a red widget', 'buying red widgets', 'finding pink & red widgets' etc.

Geo based keywords stop a lot of advanced matches. Overture has worked hard on 'Overture Local', and many geo qualified terms stop advanced matches unless the geo term is included in the phrase. This isn't true for many product searches (like wedding gift), but it is true for many local services, like 'dentist'.

However, their geo terms aren't perfect yet. A search for 'Juneau Alaska dentist office' brings up 0 results, where a search for 'Alaska dentist office', brings up a pageful (and some have the keyword phrase 'Alaska dentist'), so the system should be showing the ad for 'Alaska dentist' in that search - but it's not for some reason.

I think we'll see advanced match showing more impressions over time. Not because of increased search volume, but because the system will start to better target geo qualified terms and understand longer product based phrases (i.e. buying a wedding gift in Chicago)

[Hard_Target]

ewhisper:
any idea when overture advance matches will start showing on MSN and Yahoo?

[eWhisper]

It's already showing on Yahoo & MSN in the form above.

It's just not as advanced as everyone thought it would be.

There seem to be a ton of stop words, and many queries which should be showing advanced matches - and it just isn't.

I'd say about a quarter of the tests I run show advanced matches, and the other 75% show no matches at all. Many of these are for keywords which have advanced match on - and the seaches are commercial.

I've put the system through quite a bit of tests - and have been very disappointed with the results so far.

[Hard_Target]

I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.
I understand that because of 2-layered filtering you described some of the 'expected' advanced matches will not show up on Overture (and therefore MSN, Yahoo).
But is there an additional layer of filtering that prevents some of the matches showing on overture from showing on MSN and Yahoo? (that seems to be is my experience)

[eWhisper]

For the tests I've run (and this is purely testing - not 'official info'), I'm actually seeing more sponsored results on Yahoo & MSN than on Overture.com.

Overture has a lot of 'additional listings' that are content match listings for stemmed and phrase/similiar match listings that Yahoo is showing actual paid results for.

MSN & Yahoo are allowed to send customized search queries to Overture (or however the databases interact) to get their results. MSN, Overture & Yahoo show different paid results for many searches - with Yahoo often showing the most, and Overture showing the least (although, they backfill from content match - so in a way - they show the most).

[johnnydequino]

eWhisper - I think in order to have advanced match more "advanced", overture needs to make it easier to have negative keywords by category. Agree/disagree?

Negative keywords on the account level is not enough, and negative keywords on the keyword level is overkill in my opinion. Category level at the very least should be an option.

jd

[dan_popescu]

Thanks for sharing the results of your research eWhisper. Indeed, I was expecting my listings to show for keyphrase+anything. After doing some testing myself I see this is not the case as you said.

One other thing I have found: if you have a category with more than one listing and you only turn the Advanced option for 1 listing (or more but not all), your listing(s) will not show for advanced searches although their status will show Advanced. In other words you must have all listings in a Category turned to Advanced. At least that's what I've experienced.

[eWhisper]

I belive this is due to how advanced match works.

If you bid on 'red widgets',
'fuzzy red widgets', 'blue red widgets', and 'pink red widgets', would all fall under the origional 'red widgets'.

I've noticed that the order I turn on advanced match can cause some listings to not be matched properly.

I think this will work itself out. There are so many variables with the auto-stemming Overture has worked out and advanced match, that it's taking a while to get all the kinks rolled out of this matching option.

I talked to one of the Overture tech team members yesterday, and they thought that eventually everything will be able to be broad matched, but they have to work out some more details on order. If you have all the above advanced matched, and someone searches for 'red pink widgets', the advertiser concensus would be that we'd be paying the bid price for 'pink red widgets', but it could be decided that the bid price for 'red widgets' is what matters.

Right now, I think it could be said it's still in beta (although the beta testing was last month for us), and that we'll see quite a few changes over time.

Hopefully, Overture Rep will start visiting this forum more often and post on these types of details.

[GerBot]

eWhisper:

Advanced match works differently than broad match.
The system analyzes the entire query.
It checks for standard matches.
It then checks the advanced matches.

Standard matches are shown first.
Advanced matches are run through filters.

An advanced match must have everyword in the query - it doesn't broad match similar keywords like Google where 'ring' can be matched to 'jewelry'. It does use stemming matches though.
See: [content.overture.com...]

It then has another algo that determines if the searched for query is close enough to the advanced matches to show. In a lot of cases, 'junk keywords' can't be matched to anything - so no matches are shown.

Is this "other algo" mentioned in any official publication?
I can't find it anywhere

[eWhisper]

GerBot,

I've never seen anything about their word filter published, as pretty much, the 'other algo', is some sort of filter to determine if it's a word, misspelling of a word, or whatnot.