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Dave
At a conference I met one person who managed a major account - they were spending well into 6 figures per month on Overture and had been doing so for over a year. They also did Google, but their figures left no doubt that Overture was a buy that paid off for THEM.
You say they were spending more on Overture than Google, but was their Return on equity better than that of Google?
Dave
I own and run a forum myself on Excel and VBA. I NEVER assume the person asking the question knows all that I know and help them as much as possible.
If the forum is only for those that don't need to ask questions, it should be stated soemwhere.
To date not one person has categorically stated that they know for a FACT that Overture gives a better ROE. Lot's have hinted that it does, but none of these offer any proof or method they use to back their claim. With the exeption of "tedster" and "storevalley" who I thanked, which by the way doesn't seem to happen often here.
Dave
There are always numerous ways to your target. It's called marketing mix.
Do you calculate ROI on all of your marketing mix, sure. Do you throw out some marketing avenues because of 'poor' ROI, sure.
You look at the cost per lead and cost per sale and make an independent judgment regardless of its source.
Dave, I am not being smug here but you are arguing basic marketing technique. If you think you have a better way by all means do it.
Every similar avenue to reach a possible consumer has its players and each one touts a 'better way' - that's marketing! It's your job to determine the value of each player.
If you get enough traffic from Google why pay a higher price from Overture? If you need more traffic than Google provides buy into Overture. If you need more leads than Google and Overture combined do some Direct Mail. If you need more leads than Google, Overture and Direct Mail do Trade Shows...
Comparing Google to Overture if you need the additional leads is useless. They reach DIFFERENT and additional consumers.
[edited by: Jon_King at 11:54 am (utc) on July 27, 2003]
Advertising on TNN is cheaper than NBC but they don't deliver the same results.....although $ for $ there might not be a big difference.
Either way both are markets to consider, and take advantage of when able to do so!
Dave, I am not being smug here but you are arguing basic marketing technique
"basic marketing technique" perhaps, but basic only to those that know all about it.
"arguing" NO! it's a real shame that you see anyone with a difference of opinion, not in your league and needs to have things explained as "arguing".
If you get enough traffic from Google why pay a higher price from Overture?
That is exactly my thoughts, but many others here keeping saying that you should as Overture has the better ROI.
I would have thought that, if you do not have the patience to put up with questions, that have patently clear answers in your eyes, you would simply not bother replying. I get the feeling some here only reply because they DO see the thread as an argument.
Wouldn't it be nice if one of you came to my forum and asked a complex (to you) Excel VBA question and I replied with "use a formula"?
Dave
[edited by: Dave_Hawley at 12:07 pm (utc) on July 27, 2003]
There is no easy way to answer your question. The study and refinement of marketing to a particular group is both art and science. It follows numbers and may also require intuitivness. Honestly pick up a copy MARKETING by Richard Sandhusen and you will understand that your question cannot be answered in the exacting nature you are looking for. IMHO.
Dave
FACT that Overture gives a better ROE
Fact: on some keywords on some days at some hours of the day in my industry, I have a better ROI with Overture than with Google.
Fact: on some keywords on some days at some hours of the day in my industry, I have a better ROI with Overture than with Google.
Arrh ok, that I can see. This is a well watered down version of what has been said though.
Dave
If I wanted to run my multi-divisional companies' 10,000 products inventory and billing using Excel (not even in a bonifide accounting and inventory program) and I was only familiar with basic functions of the Excel program; and asked you to explain it to me on your forum wouldn't you tell me to go back to school or hire a professional?
Are there questions outside of the scope of a few replies in a forum? I am not being rude here, just honest. If you give me the details of the marketing program you are speaking of I will help you with the outline of a proper analysis and show you the depth and scope of an internet marketing program if you like.
Back to your question:
"I'm curious why anyone would want to pay Overture their min of 10c pc when Google Adwords are half this?"
Because it's so damn cheap. .05 or .10 doesn't matter. Ridiculously cheap. 50 times less than any other way I get leads.
Well, categorically I would tell you to avoid all 2nd and third tier PPC providers because they will not deliver ROI at even a fraction of Google, Overture or other 1st tier providers.
The difficulty in explaining is due to the anomalies in the 2 systems.
If you use broad match in Google, then you will get a lot more traffic for keywords that are not what you want, so let's say your average bid is 20 cents on Google and 80 cents on Overture, I'd argue that the volume on Google would be greater so the true CPC would probably be nearer the Overture one, and that if you measured click to sale ratios that Overtures would be much better, BUT, only if you used broad match.
The closest you will get at the moment is if you matched Overture and Google exact match results, but even then you'd have anomalies because of Match Driver.
I think Hawkgirl has given you the best answer, on some days, OV will kick it for you, and others it will be Google.
One things' for sure, on the day's that google dies for you, if you have no back up your losing sales, you should think blended costs, and ROI, ROI, ROI, right down to keyword level.
Cookies will do part of it for you, web analytics is important, but there will be no magic formula.
You get far more spillage with Google (in most cases, unless you have your campaign professionally implemented and/or managed).
I can cite many examples of clients where the CPC on Overture is less than Google's, but that is probably due to clever keyword selection on our part.
So, I have identified the top performing ads and then tried to improve the under-performing ones. In some cases, our excitement got the better of us and we started a bidding war that proved costly. We dropped bids to the original figure and found that our position did not change much.
- Ash
