Overture is playing games with word matching.

Taking impression off reports but leaving terms in.

[Tropical Island]

After the Overture changes in the reporting we started seeing impressions for really strange search terms. As an example we advertise under island and they are showing us under "3 mile island". We are an island just north of Venezuela so "3 mile island" is just stupid. We wrote the customer service department two days ago. In the meantime the reports pages have been down. We just received an e-mail from them saying we would not be seeing impressions for this term again and the the reports are now working again. On a hunch that they were just covering up the problem we checked the search term in the Over data base and sure enough we are there.

This really burns me. We were obviously not the only adverisers that complained. Their solution has been to hide the problem. Without negative search words there is no way to control this. This is typical of Over's recent pattern. The advetiser be d....d and on with the bottom line.

[seth_wilde]

Match driver uses your title and description to find related matches. If you remove "3 mile" from your description your listing should stop showing up under "3 mile island".

This isn't anything new, it's just that most people never truly understood matchdriver (and overture reporting matchdriver traffic under the orginal listing didn't help).

One big thing to remember about matchdriver is to never include something like "free shipping" in your description, or you'll likely pull up for free widgets as well...

[Tropical Island]

First of all the word we were advertising was "island" - not "3 mile". This phrase does not appear anywhere in our description. Over has now written us that they will remove this term however how many others are we appearing under?

"it's just that most people never truly understood matchdriver"

How can anyone determine what possible commutations of your description or title would bring up unsuitable results. With adwords we can use brackets, quotes or negative keywords. With Over there is no choice which means that for decent ROI you need to elimintate any possible general term. This also doesn't work. We also advertise under a very popular tourist location in Venezuela near the equator. So as to not get in trouble with the TOS the phrase is "keyword falls". Our listing was appearing in Over under "keyword of the north". How from a specific two word location keyword phrase can they do this? Their software program is deeply flawed and by hiding the actual terms we are appearing under and not allowing us to pick and choose they can keep it going.

[seth_wilde]

"This phrase does not appear anywhere in our description"

Maybe I was looking at the wrong listing, but the only tropical island type paid listing that I see on overture coming up under "3 mile island" happens to be in Venezula (were your profile says your live) and also happens to use "accommodations close to 3 mile long Playa el Agua beach" which is setting off the match driver.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending overture. I think it's absolutely wrong that they don't report matchdriver traffic under their true search phrases (and give you no easy way to opt out). I was just pointing out that if you understand how matchdriver works (which the vast majority don't) and put all the proper tracking in place you can write your listings to minimize mis-matches and maximize ROI.

[Tropical Island]

Seth,

You are absolutely right. The description does appear in that particular listing. The question still remains how one can possibly predetermine the combinations that might cause problems. As you say using tracking then you would (maybe) be able to determine which search phrase it develops and then go back and adjust your description to eliminate that problem only to develop another one. Honestly, who has the time?

Over could solve the problem by showing these terms in the daily reports and then allowing us to use negative words. Instead they are frantically altering the system so that these terms will not show up and cause them this type of problem. The older reports were off line this morning. My only assumption is that they are cleansing these reports of impression numbers on matchdriver terms. They must have had a flood of mail!

[seth_wilde]

The question still remains how one can possibly predetermine the combinations that might cause problems

You can't 100%, but I think the majority of bad matchdriver traffic comes from some of the easier to spot mistakes.. (like in the example I used above, if you sell widgets and use "free shipping" in your description it's likely you'll be paying for traffic for "free widgets").

I try to minimize the potential for matchdriver traffic while writing the initial title/description. I'll check the stats for anything unusual, but after that I just look at it as a cost of doing business (like small scale click fraud). I track ROI, so if the term isn't working I just dump it.

Over could solve the problem by showing these terms in the daily reports and then allowing us to use negative words

I agree

[Dmitri010]

Does anyone know how those MatchDriver combinations appear in the reporting in Overture? My guess would be that they show up under one of the keywords as if the entire keyword phrase was used. Can anyone confirm?

[Tropical Island]

Now that they have changed the programming to hide these terms then you are right - they are included (hidden?) in the exisitng search terms.

[MarkWolk]

The truth is that Matchdriver is misleading and irrelevant. Like many others, I have been struggling with it since its creation. Over a year later, I thought I had everything under control, when I unexpectedly found more irrelevant results (for which, of course, I had to pay). My latest discovery is "alsace guided tours" - you get sponsored results for ALASKAN tour companies (I'd bet they are happy about that!), whereas my own legitimate listing for "alsace tours" is nowhere to be found. This is ridiculous.

I have emailed Overture and I trust they will correct that problem.

But at the end of the day, they will have to seriously improve Matchdriver or remove it (better), or they will become more and more laughable.

[Tropical Island]

There is a simple solution. Make the "word matches" visible to us and allow us to use negative words to refine it. The overall principal is OK - it's just that Overture has gone to great lengths to hide what they are doing. This is a form of theft (fraud?) if they are showing their advertisers for terms that are irrelevant. We all know that searchers will merrily click away if something catches their eye. Great for Over - useless for us. The whole principal of PPC is that we can pick and choose where we want our ads to appear (and our money spent).

[MarkWolk]

I agree with the term "fraud" here and I believe if a group of large advertisers decided to sue Overture, they would have a strong case. I am too small to do anything (except watch my account).

As I expected, Overture reacted to my complaint and telephoned me to let me know they are going to review this particular search term "alsace guided tours" so it does not lead to Alaskan tour companies any longer. A good point for their customer service; but there is more to be done than reviewing each search term individually.

[Tropical Island]

The only way you discovered this wrong word match was luck. The only way we found out about ours was because they accidently allowed the matched terms to appear for a couple of days when they upgraded the customer accounts reporting area.

Is the system so flawed that they are afraid to let us see what's actually happening? IMHO, yes!

[skibum]

Do the "description MatchDriver matches" only show up on serch terms where there are no bids?

For example:

If the listing is:

Al's Wild Widgets - Offers a variety of widget plans and sells widgets within a 15 mile radius of Pittsbugh Pennsylvania. Offers free delivery.

and Al is buyng "wild widgets".

Now if somebody types in "15 free wild widgets" and 3 other advertisers are already bidding on that, will Al's listings show up on a search for "free wild widgets"?

If Al, Joe, and Max all have descriptions with wild, widgets, 15, and free in them and nobody is currently bidding on "15 free wild widgets", will all three of those listings show up for "15 free wild widgets"?

And if they do, will all their max bids be carried over to this undesirable term?

So if Al is bidding $.10 on his term, Joe $3.42, and Max $5.00, Max will end up paying $3.43 for a click on "free wild widgets" which he would have no interest in?

[jeyval]

Do the "description MatchDriver matches" only show up on serch terms where there are no bids?

Answer
No, matchdriver gets applied independently of if it has or not real bidders
Many of your terms will show "matchdrived" to something if the searcher dont search for your exact words

And if they do, will all their max bids be carried over to this undesirable term?

Answer
I am afraid the answer is yes

So if Al is bidding $.10 on his term, Joe $3.42, and Max $5.00, Max will end up paying $3.43 for a click on "free wild widgets" which he would have no interest in?

Answer
This is another yes

[skibum]

Oh well, we're adding an enhanced tracking capability to OV campaigns so just might have to go bit@h to em' if the matches are to far off.

[Tropical Island]

"skibum - we're adding an enhanced tracking capability to OV campaigns"

Why should you reasonably have to do this? Shouldn't Over show us what we are paying for? What other industry would get away with charging their clients and not have to be accountable? Maybe the "MatchDriver" searches are valid and have no real problems. Why then are they going to such lengths to hide them?

In AdWords we negative match all sorts of terms related to our regional area so as not to get requests for things we don't want to deal with. Before "MatchDriver" we didn't have to worry about Over because the ad would only show for exact searches. Now we are not sure where it's showing up. It's obvious when you are in 6th place for a term and they show impressions and clicks for a number 1 placement that there is some obscure search term that they think you should be shown for. Please tell me what this term is and if it's appropriate we'll add it to our list.

[jeyval]

"Please tell me what this term is and if it's appropriate we'll add it to our list."

Dont be silly :) they cant tell you or you would get mad to them

One of the clear examples on my case being a webdesigner is that they match "how to build a website" to my term "web design"

I will not pay for the term "how to build a website" even the lowest bid as obviously there is a lot of people looking for info in how to SELF BUILT a site hence I cant convert any of these

But because of Match Driver, is not only that I need to pay for this but I need to pay top money as "web design" bid here in UK cost around £3/£4/ to be in top positions

Of course if you phone them they tell you that they do this for your own good and to drive targeted visitors to your website

Over, if you are reading this, one thing is stealling from me which is bad enough but please dont insult my intelligence as this is 10 times worse