Why Submit by Hand?

[sean1492]

"And do the submissions by hand."

I've heard this a couple of times now, but never had it explained. Many search engines accept a submission as just a simple url, with perhaps an email in addition. There are submission programs that will do this for you. What difference does it make to do it by hand. Most of the automated software packages know enough to alter the "Referer" field, so the engine is none the wiser.

Personally, I use DumpTruck and have had pretty good success.

[Brett_Tabke]

There are several ways a search engine can detect programmed over hand submission.
1) user agent. Many autosubmitters clearly identify themselves.
2) cookies (tastes like chicken). Many are tracking submissions with cookies.
3) headers. Browsers and bots can put out different headers.
4) speed of submissions. some auto bots rapid fire off the submissions.
5) refering string. Some se's want to see a referring url from their server.

That about covers it...

[Gold_Coast]

Brett,
I agree with what you've said... BUT....
I currently use SEO written by Dan; have used Dumptruck; and have also submitted extensively by hand.
AND.... they are all getting me pretty good results!
Isn't it weird? You hear all different ways to do it, try different ways, and some work some don't! <<aaarrggghhhh....search engines>> :)

[blue2]

I think the safest thing is to submit by hand, but it isn't always a viable option.

When you simply have too many pages to submit by hand, does any one know of software that satisfies most or all of Brett's list of auto-submit shortcomings?

Any experience with CommandoPro? Is it "relatively safe?"

[mivox]

selfpromotion.com has a "multisubmitter" tool that submits 1 URL per day. Basically, if you type in 25 URLs in one batch, it will submit 1 per day for the next 25 days. Sort of "semi-manual" submission for multiple URLs... you have to type them in to the submission box each time, but it submits to each engine on the list automatically.

Dunno what the user agent, etc. info from it is, but it's done a good job for me in the past.

Of course, there are always the hand-submit-only places... and now Alta is off the auto-submit list as well. But you can't win 'em all, I suppose.

[Brett_Tabke]

There isn't an auto submitter that you can trust nor recommend at this time.

Alta now requires hand submission due to the graphic.
Google, submit the root page and it will walk the site.
Fast/AllTheWeb, submit the root page and it will walk the site.
Excite: bribe looksmart with the listing fee and they will index "some" of the site.
Lycos uses Fast/AllTheWeb.
NorthernLight. Hand submit.
Inktomi. Hand submit, but make sure the subitted page has links to it. Or pay the large per page fee for spidering.

So, what's that leave for auto submission? Nothing. The days of the auto submitter are dead - let's bury them.

Rank checking. Using off the shelf software is risky today.
Regardless of what program authors say, it can get you and your site banned from some of the bigger se's. (look around - read up).

I don't think there is a single piece of SEO software other than cloaking that can be a recommended purchase today. The game as we knew it just a year ago, has changed radically.

The old tools are obsolete. The only tool that isn't is between your ears. Read, and read some more on a daily basis. Much of the SEO info on sites today (some of my own included) is obsolete. It bodes well to keep up on the latest and ignore sales pitches (some of my included ;-)

[Brett_Tabke]

>Any experience with CommandoPro?

Yes. I know a former client with it. Headers are identifiable as a bot.

[mivox]

Excite: bribe looksmart with the listing fee and they will index "some" of the site.

LOL... I got a whopping TWO pages in Excite after my Looksmart bribe went through.

All said, the only thing I consistently use automated submission for anymore is when I have a batch of new incoming link pages that aren't well listed. I'm not super concerned whether they end up well ranked as long as they're in the indexes somewhere.

[2_much]

Well said Brett. It seems to me that the tools we're looking at now need to revolve around tracking. How to track paid listings, how to track keyword bids, how to track conversion ratios, etc.
With the shift from visitors to conversions, this will be much more useful. In a way, this may be a good thing because it may allow us to focus more on quality than quantity, which seemed to be the way of the past. Not anymore. Now the big questions are, how do we turn lookers into buyers? Who are our "lookers"? What is their behavior? What did they do at our site? Where they successful/unsuccessful? Did they trust us enough to do business? Did they receive good, thorough service? These are the things I want to know ;)

[littleman]

Ok, I'm going to break with the pack here. I autosubmit. I've been auto submitting for about two years now, and have had very good results -- including with excite. Of course, I don't do it to AV any more :).

One thing though, I use my own scripts, and I have spent hundreds of hours working on browser emulation and the cookie/referrer game. You also have to think about who and how much and when to submit.

[2_much]

Lol, I want some of that homegrown stuff ;) If you have the talent and resources to write this kind of program, then you're saving yourself a LOT of time and money.
However, for the rest of us, it's not advisable to buy such a program unless you're willing to invest significant resources acquiring it and having it customized.
At the Internet Marketing Conference in Vegas, at a workshop with rep's from many engines and directories, they said they are really trying to crack down on free submits because most of it is spam and they spend too much money and resources "spam guarding". So it would make sense for them to crack down on auto submitters that faciliate the blatant abuse of the free Add URL. This allows them to focuse their time and money on enhancing their search technology instead.