65.223.250.253

Sugar Frosted Flakes?

[wilderness]

Read robots.
grabbed main, six sub directory pages and four administrarional pages in a mere three seconds.
No images.

Arin has an administrational contact however that link is dead. Tried a google and the only thing worthwhile was a mention of a research participation with NCSA.

Just a heads up.

<edited to add UA "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT)">

[jim_w]

I’ve had that for about 6 weeks or longer. In my access_log the reverse lookup says host253.keebler.com, however, in my AXS log it just says 65.223.250.253. I have compared the times and they are the same. Did Kellogg’s buy Keebler or something?

On mine it does read and obeys robots.txt and it only crawls the higher pagers, it doesn’t tunnel down at all. So I left it for now. It just gets 11 pages plus robots once a day.

host253.keebler.com - - [26/Apr/2003:11:03:07 -0500] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 200 750 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT)"
host253.keebler.com - - [26/Apr/2003:11:03:11 -0500] "GET /books/index.html HTTP/1.0" 200 13575 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT)"
Has sub-pages never crawled.

host253.keebler.com - - [26/Apr/2003:11:03:12 -0500] "GET /dir-x/page.html HTTP/1.0" 200 27821 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT)"

host253.keebler.com - - [26/Apr/2003:11:03:12 -0500] "GET /articles.html HTTP/1.0" 302 302 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT)"
Has sub-pages never crawled.

host253.keebler.com - - [26/Apr/2003:11:03:12 -0500] "GET /examplestudy.html HTTP/1.0" 200 11538 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT)"
Has sub-pages never crawled.

host253.keebler.com - - [26/Apr/2003:11:03:13 -0500] "GET /mail.html HTTP/1.0" 200 13586 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT)"
host253.keebler.com - - [26/Apr/2003:11:03:15 -0500] "GET /services.html HTTP/1.0" 200 20211 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT)

I tried and could not trace route or ping host253.keebler.com. I get an error ‘could not find host host253.keebler.com’ with ping and ‘Unable to resolve target system name host253.keebler.com’ with TR.

[wilderness]

bottom of the cookie co page is the following:

TM, ®Kellogg Company ©2003 Kellogg Company TM, Finding Nemo elements ©Disney/Pixar.
©2003 America's Dairy Farmers and Milk Processors. got milk?® is a registered trademark of the California Milk Processor Board.
end of quote

I haven't a clue what a cookie or cereal maunfacturing company has in spidering my sites?
Perhaps they'll be kind enough to enlighten me ;)

Impossible for them to read the number of pages they gathered on my site in their three second visit.

BTW I denied the IP range.
Don

[jim_w]

I get this stuff from manufactures all the time, so for us, it looks normal.

When I trace route 65.223.250.253 it stops at…
kelloggs-chi-gw.customer.alter.net [157.130.30.174]

When I TR 157.130.30.174 comes back to UUNET Technologies, Inc on ARIN

So it looks like normal activity for us anyway.

Keebler may have a place in Chicago, and we are IL based, so I’m not worried about it.

Impossible for them to read the number of pages they gathered on my site in their three second visit

That does sound funny. And I’m not talking Ha-Ha, I mean peculiar. Is it possible there were only looking at the metas for KW’s or something?

[wilderness]

Is it possible there were only looking

They won't be looking any longer. ;)

I'm still inclined to pay more heed to the NCSA link I found, even though it's four years old. I recall some other previous chases leading to Urbana/Champaign. http ://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/News/Access/Releases/99Releases/990406.Kellogg.html

[jim_w]

I must be as green as an Irish frog, but I didn’t see anything wrong with that.

FYI, If we count Kelloggs as being Keebler in Chicago, 4 out of 9 companies are IL based.

I can tell you one thing about U of I, I talked to an attorney at SIU School Of Medicine and he knows the attorneys at U of I, and U of I is real ticked they didn’t do something, anything, other than what they did with MOSAIC.

[wilderness]

<quote>I must be as green as an Irish frog</quote>

Jim,
We each, as webmasters must decided what is beneficial or detremential to our own sites (and this is the last time I'm typing this statement. From here on it's in the archives)

A university, in a joint effort from private corporations is attempting to/or gather data from your/my websites. They are both funded with resources out the Yahoo! Using in most instances students which are compensated with graded or grant funded employees.
Whether the end use is to fulfill the universities profitability or to enhance the profitability of the corporations?
In either of the above events, do you or I receive compensation for both or bandwidth (reagrdless if it's only pennies) and our content!
Even worse we are jerked off with the deceptive methods of gathering our content! They cross our boundaries in the process!
Can you do that? Try getting past their secretary or PR man which has no concept of TOS or log traffic transitions?

And yet, more and more of these types appear each day expecting the process to perpetuate?

My reply is to "eat 403's"

Don

[jim_w]

‘OIC’, he said slapping his forehead with the palm of his hand.

do you or I receive compensation

Actually I do, which is why the difference in opinions exists. I never thought about it the way you see it.

[wilderness]

Now the following may make perfect sense from the standpint of Kellog o Keebler or Disney or whoever the sam they are!

65.223.250.253 - - [29/Apr/2003:06:13:44 -0700] "GET /robots.txt HTTP/1.0" 403 - "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT)"
65.223.250.253 - - [29/Apr/2003:06:13:45 -0700] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 403 - "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0;
Windows NT)"

However it craziness that somebody who spiders and has not cordially identified themselves as spider would attempt to read robots.
This action only adds to their attempted deception.

[carfac]

Hi:

I just looked back and found this. Looks human to me. Cam in from a MSN search, opened two pages, and all accompaning js/jpg/css files.

I would NOT be surprised to see Disney/Pixar surf my site... however, the subject matter of this serach was Superman! (And the old Filmation series, at that)

Sorry not too much help...

dave

[jim_w]

The only thing they ever do on my site is just look at the text. They never get any images, or read the js or css. Just the text like it is looking for something to change maybe?

[carfac]

Jim:

Very DEFINITELY got some jpgs here... the appropriate ones for the pages, but it got them. Sure LOOKED like a human on my site.

dave

[jim_w]

It probably was human. As I recall, and God knows I don’t recall stuff as well as I did even just 5 years ago, ‘they’ came as a human to my site at 1st. Then the bot started. I get a lot of that. The save off my site and then watch it for changes. I hate that. Actually I hate it a lot less when I can ID them, but I get a lot that trace back to an ISP, Sprint, etc. So I don’t know it they are competitors or not. What I do is look at the keyword search. Sometimes I can tell by that.

When MS came out with .NET I think they gave a whole bunch of people some easy tools to do some real unethical stuff. And no doubt with examples. (GRIN) I just hope that comes back to bite them. Example, IE6 you have to put into the img tag galleryimg="NO" to turn off the save tool bar thing.

[carfac]

Jim:

>>> img tag galleryimg="NO"

What is that? I know about "<META HTTP-EQUIV="imagetoolbar" CONTENT="no">"- is that what you mean, or is there another MS thing I need to block?

dave

[jim_w]

Looks like the same difference...

Image Toolbar Does Not Appear Over Image in Internet Explorer

SYMPTOMS
When you position the mouse pointer over an image or picture in Microsoft Internet Explorer, the image toolbar may not appear as expected.

This behavior may occur if any of the following conditions are true:

The image toolbar has been disabled.

-or-
The image size is less than 200 x 200 pixels.

-or-
The image is a background image.

-or-
The image is part of an image mapping (indicating some sort of menu). If the Web page author uses the attributes USEMAP or ISMAP within the image tag, the image toolbar does not appear.

-or-
The Web page author disables the Image Toolbar either through a meta tag (<META HTTP-EQUIV="imagetoolbar" CONTENT="no">) or by setting the attribute GALLERYIMG="no" to an IMG tag element.
Note Web page authors can enable the image toolbar for images of any size and images that are part of an image mapping by setting the attribute GALLERYIMG="yes" to an IMG tag element as follows:

<IMG BORDER="0" SRC="pic.jpg" GALLERYIMG="yes">

[wilderness]

Some more FIASCO to add :)

For the past 24 hours I've been getting an unusal amont of traffic to a page which is from the 1890's.

The referrals are coming from a secure page at Northwestern University in Ill.

In an attepmt to gather a contact?
Looky Looky ;-)

Kellogg Graduate School of Management:
http ://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/
E-mail: @kellogg.northwestern.edu

[jim_w]

For the past 24 hours I've been getting an unusal amont of traffic to a page which is from the 1890's

My that's an old page! :-)) (I'll bet that's the 1st time you heard that?)

Anything on that page about business. Like Railroards or the lumber industry, or Standard Oil?

[wilderness]

Acutally besides being a Newpaper article which was taken off Microfilm describing the three day opening (which BTW is incomplete for lack of urgency.) The place has some numeous mention throug the internet of being the only race in which Henry Ford drove a race car (although) there is no mention of that in the 1894 article. It's a brief six paragraphs describing the festivites (of which nothing similar occurrs today) which took place prior to the actual horse racing beginning.

There is some mention across the internet of Barney Oldfield racing there as well.

After the horse racing died at the track and car racing began, Henry Ford muster the capital for his auto company by winning the car race in 190-something.
end of hogwash ;)

Why on earth these folks at Kellogg/Keebler have been so persistent to get into my site upon deception and then choose this page to make a point for Northwestern University and the Kellogg Graduate School of Management is beyond any logoic or reason I can concieve.

I might have overlooked their last referal visits had the referal's not come from a secure of which I was unable to view how the page was used or referenced.

As a result I've denied the referrals and portions of thir IP.
Of course all of that was my action after not receiving a prompt reply from the University contacts.

Same old song as IP backbones.

<edited by wilderness: BTW Jim I also have an article online which describes the horses which existed in Detroit in 1704, a bit older than this 1894 newsstory>

[jim_w]

I also mention Henry Ford. Actually my business model is based in part on his. They may be doing a database or something of 20th century business leaders. Remember that Ford invented the production line that changed the way manufacturing was done forever. Of course my site also has a lot about manufacturing past and present. They could be putting together a time line or something and your article(s) are good for the dates that events occurred thus creating a time line to other human activities at any given point in history. They may even have a database like Prolog an artificial intelligent programming language running, which runs like a backwards database. Who knows.

describing the festivities. .. which took place prior to the actual horse racing beginning.

If you have the dates of the festivities, or the name, perhaps they were looking to see if you mentioned anything about Ford. Did they come more than once?

I might have overlooked their last referal visits had the referal's not come from a secure of which I was unable to view how the page was used or referenced.

I get a lot of these. Talked to a professor once and he indicated that it was a class online discussion group and my site was mentioned. He wouldn’t tell me what they were saying. :-(

I don’t know. I always felt that, based on how Lotus was either practically giving away or giving away to universities versions of 123 and how, at that time every graduate when they went into the work force purchased 123 because they already knew how to use it, I’m hoping for some of the same effect. The bot may just be looking for change in the page so they can gather additional information and update their database timeline. Beats me.

I mean these guys work on grants all the time. And I've seen grant money given on some pretty strange things. It's a game with grant money. It's not what you want the money for, it's how well you present it. Form-Not-Content.

[wilderness]

it was a class online discussion group

Much of my content is copyrighted materials of which I'm granted use because the articles and accompanying images were not previously digitzed.

I have another article of of famous horse. In that artcile there is reference to a horse being named after a revolutinary war hero.
The page gets an unusual amount of visitors that only view the page because of the reference. It likely is part of some schools learning program.

I even attempted a change in the spelling of the Hero's name on the page because I felt the reference is significant to the horse, and yet the traffic continued.
Some things just can't be figured out :(

[jim_w]

Much of my content is copyrighted materials

That’s why they link. It’s legal.

Some things just can't be figured out

I can’t argue with that. I have a new one. For a week now, after coming from google, they get just the top level pages twice a day. No images, .js, or .css, just the html. I’m sure it is someone watching the page and they get alerted when the page changes. It’s a manufacture. Yesteryear there were services that did that. One had a white ball as the logo.

I know when I used these services, I would sign up to watch a page and then forget about until I was alerted. Then I would go to the page and remember I was watching it, then decide I still wanted to watch it for changes and forget about it again.

I usually let this stuff go on for a week or so, then bad the IP in a temp area of my .htaccess until they stop, then I remove the ban.

[wilderness]

Yesteryear there were services

In years past (prior to the interent) there existed news clipping services. Some still do.

One webservice similar to what you describe is Change Detection. There are a host of others. Some require software.