Optimization Principle

[The_Hitcher]

A client I did a great deal of SEO for, dropped me as they couldn't see what they were paying for. They basically got their office boy on the case. Six months later they're ringin me with "Help". A 2 min check and they have a Google penalty.

What I can never understand is why anyone risks Black Hat tactics with an established brand - where is the logic in it? On numerous occasions they made the point that their competition were using multiple domains, hidden text and all kinds of dirty tricks, but my answer was yes they do but its far better to look for long term stability and know you'll be there when the others eventually get rumbled. To sort them out now will cost way more than any money they may have saved, plus I have to send an apology to Google to get them out of the mess - if they're lucky.

At the moment, what works for Google doesn't work for Yahoo and as we all know, sites get dropped for the tiniest mistakes. Aggressive SEO is one thing but its a damned fine line. My approach has always been to work from the customer end (backwards principle)and let that dictate how the site takes shape. The two worst types of client are those that insist on Flash and those that know NOTHING about the internet and treat you like you're trying to fleece them. Experience shows its better not to tackle either type unless they are good listeners.

Anyone else like to add to that?

[trillianjedi]

The two worst types of client are those that insist on Flash and those that know NOTHING about the internet and treat you like you're trying to fleece them. Experience shows its better not to tackle either type unless they are good listeners.

I think you've done everything right. At the end of the day the client realised that you were right all along. Actions speak volumes.

Now is the time to increase your fees.

You'll always get clients like this, and they'll always be back. Eventually. Usually with cap in hand.

TJ

[steve40]

The problem seems to stem from 2 different types

those who have no knowledge and believe some of the C*** they are told by black hat seo companies i.e. quick easy and cheap TO BE NUMBER 1

Those who have some knowledge and think anyone can do it

Like all things in life they need to remember the premise " You get what you pay for in life "

so keep doing what you are doing as the instant number 1 companies come and go and only the companies who understand that SEO is a specific niche that is knowledge based and changes over time in it's own right will be willing to pay what it's worth
steve

[gi3wgk]

My view.
trillianjedi said it all "increase your fees" do two wrongs make a right.
This is why some people become suspicious just like I was.

What is lacking is gaining the confidence of your client

I would say to hitcher look again how you explained your work and also look in depth what the client was trying to saying to you. I know I have great problems understanding programmers as many seem to think we should all know how it all comes together. They seem to forget if we kenw as much as they did there would be need for them

[The_Hitcher]

A lot depends on the client certainly. I mean in the last year I've turned one small high street shop into the worlds biggest retailer inside six months, in fact for months he didn't even lift his shutters because basically he didn't need to. That kind of thing can really make your day - power to the small business I say.

I'm rather tired of all the "you pay us and we'll guarantee to get you top of the engines" - what utter bilge. It just doesn't wortk like that. You have so many factors to take into account and I've never yet found two optimising jobs the same. The crucial one above all else has to be "What are potential buyers actually tapping into search engines?" Once you have a handle on that its just a case of building on it.

The funniest enquiry I EVER got was some guy who listed pages and pages of programming requirements for his site and then finishes up saying "I've worked this out and I think its worth about £400 at most". My jaw just dropped - what planet was he on? I suggested he find a site builder (somewhere) who could agree with him and the best of luck.

Its a tough one now though. Black hat tactics seem worse than ever since Yahoo & Google tried to combat spammy sites. Everything seems flooded with tin-pot directories. You try looking for a specific car part on the main engines for instance - you've got NO chance......