Forum Moderators: open

Message Too Old, No Replies

Dropping Search Engine Rankings

Our rankings have fallen after site wide change to the title pages

         

Jam_Jar

11:25 am on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



We have recently changed the page titles on our whole site to incorporate more of our key words. Since doing this the site has dropped in a number of search engines. Is this a temporary glitch? I have heard that when a significant site wide change is made the search engines may not recognise your site and have to re-cache it (not sure if that is the correct term?)

I would be grateful for any advice.

trillianjedi

2:02 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



the search engines may not recognise your site and have to re-cache it (not sure if that is the correct term?)

I have never heard that one before.

All that's happened is you have diluted the keyword density you already had in the title.

The drop is inevitable, but, before you change it back, you'll want to see if your overall traffic has increased as a result of doing better in the search engines for terms/phrases that you were not appearing for previously.

TJ

Jam_Jar

2:22 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks for this

As the same key words are still included, should we still achieve high rankings for the same search terms as before? Will it take time for the search engines to 'see' the site again because it has changed significantly (and after they have, will I find the rankings improving once again). I hope I'm not just asking the same question in a different way here.

pageoneresults

2:27 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



As the same key words are still included, should we still achieve high rankings for the same search terms as before?

May I ask why they were changed? Were they performing well before the change? The position and balance of keywords in the title is important. Adding additional keywords to the title may have diluted what was there originally or you may have too much density now compared to what you had previously.

trillianjedi

2:32 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I hope I'm not just asking the same question in a different way here.

Yes, you are basically ;-)

Re-read my post. You are diluting the density of the previously ranking keywords in your titles.

TJ

Jam_Jar

2:41 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I changed them because most pages were titled according to individual content(for example a page containing a news story would be titled 'newsroom')rather than reflecting keywords of the site. The site was performing well in some key earch engines but badly in others. After some research I thought it may be worth changing the titles to see if this effected these rankings. I only did the work around two weeks ago and am hoping that it may be a little too early to see the results I was hoping for, but became a bit concerned when I checked today. Am new to this so sometimes it comes down to trial and error I guess.

JJ

pageoneresults

2:45 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I changed them because most pages were titled according to individual content (for example a page containing a news story would be titled 'newsroom') rather than reflecting keywords of the site.

When you say "rather than reflecting keywords of the site", do you mean that you took the previous titles and just dropped keyword phrases in that were applicable to the entire site?

Or, did you change the title to reflect the actual content on each page?

Jam_Jar

2:51 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I changed the title completely. And every page title on the site now contains the same title.

Thank you both for all of your help!

[edited by: agerhart at 2:53 pm (utc) on Feb. 27, 2004]
[edit reason] No URL Drops Per TOS [/edit]

trillianjedi

2:53 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



We don't need to see your site - you explained it well enough (it's against TOS rules too).

Google works on pages, not domains, so, as pageoneresults says, your page title keywords should reflect the content of each page, not the overall site.

TJ

pageoneresults

2:54 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



And every page title on the site now contains the same title.

Ack! If that is the case, you may have made yourself pretty much invisible. I've reviewed plenty of sites where the same title is shared across many pages. The conclusion I've come to is that only one of those pages may do well in the SERPs. The rest of them will sit and collect dust.

The page titles should be unqiue to each page.

Jam_Jar

2:59 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Sounds like I've got my work cut out for me today then!

I will re-name pages incorporating both key words and words that relate to page content.

Does that sound correct?

Thanks again for all of your help

pageoneresults

3:03 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I will re-name pages incorporating both key words and words that relate to page content.

I'm assuming that means that you will update the

<title>
elements on all pages.

Yes, you have your work cut out for you today. May I ask where you got the idea to make all page titles the same? I'd like to make sure that those reading this topic take this seriously as page titles are the most important element on the page.

Jam_Jar

3:12 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



We took over the site about a year ago and it actually came to us like that. It was performing well in MSN at the time. When we changed the page titles to reflect individual page content rather than each being named the same we droppped right out of MSN. I thought that by reverting to the orignal page titles it may pick up again in MSN. Looks as though I may have shot myself in the foot there.

It would be good to know of the central body for website guidelines. I have done searches on the internet to find an international standard that we should be working within but have found that this has often confused me further. We want the site to be completely within any guidelines set.

bostonseo

4:12 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)



In my experience, if a website has excellent content and a large amount of quality incoming links, having the same title on each page doesn't matter much.

Sure this is a case by case exception, but there are no real hard rules that sites having the same titles on all pages cannot have excellent rankings.

pageoneresults

4:58 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



In my experience, if a website has excellent content and a large amount of quality incoming links, having the same title on each page doesn't matter much.

Hello bostonseo, could you please expand on your above comment. Tell us what the strategy would be to utilize the same

<title>
element on every page.

jdMorgan

4:59 pm on Mar 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Jam_Jar,

Welcome to WebmasterWorld [webmasterworld.com]!

> It would be good to know of the central body for website guidelines.

Well, there really isn't any "central authority" on Web site design - Search engines are free to rank Web pages in any way they like. The success or failure of a search engine algorithm depends on whether searchers feel tht it returns relevant results for their searches.

However, there are a few resources that stand out, and here is a search [google.com] that brings up one of them (as well as several follow-ons) that are worth reading.

Jim

bostonseo

4:56 am on Mar 3, 2004 (gmt 0)



Just saying that I have optimized websites using the same page title for all 10 pages and 4 of the 10 terms I've targered are the #1 result on Google. It's in large part because the terms are not very competitive; but to say using the same title on each page doesn't work is not 100% accurate. I don't use the same titles on pages anymore, just saying it has worked for me.

Robert Charlton

6:24 am on Mar 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Jam_Jar,

I guess you've gotten the message that you just went backwards.

The title is the core element on a page. I often build the content of a page around target phrases contained in a highly focussed title. The title has a limited length and a limited number of phrases it can effectively target. Take a look at:

Building the Perfect Page - Part II - The Basics
Developing an effective <title> element.
[webmasterworld.com...]

You want to develop your title in a way where you are targeting your primary phrase for that page.

There's also a question of how focussed your entire site should be, but that's a whole other discussion. I'd do some site searches here on theming and theme pyramids.

PS... A thread that seems really appropriate to your question is:

Title Tags: A badly written title will sink your site
How to sabotage your web site without even knowing it.
[webmasterworld.com...]

Jam_Jar

9:38 am on Mar 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Dear Jim, Robert and Bostonseo thanks for all of your suggestions. I have changed all of the page titles now, I used the BBCi website as a guide in the end (not copying their page titles exactly obviously) as I thought this would be a reliable one to use. Will definatly check out the other threads that Robert and Jim suggested.

Thanks again!