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At the end of my page, I have a Horizontal Rule and then some discrete (slightly smaller, slightly dimmer) text that lists all the keyword combinations that relate to this particular page.
Aside from the fact that it shows your competitors exactly what keywords you are targeting, is there anything about this method that could be counter-productive?
thanks
Mark
The customer will forgive the fact that it looks odd because they will recognise that the reason that they found my RELEVANT page is because I included RELVANT keywords at the end of the page.
You should reserve the term spam for when it really is spam. In any case I'm at liberty to design my webpages however I like without being accused of spamming my customers.
I'm not talking about pasting a list of 30 keywords, I'm talking about allowing my main content to be written in a perfectly natural way rather than jumping through hoops to mention as many relevant keywords as possible.
I like your idea of putting the keywords under some sort of apparently legitimate section of content. Thanks for the comments
There's no point arguing that you're "helping" your customers. Search engines don't think so.
Now really folks, that message is there for your benefit, not for the search engines.
It is not spam! ;)
WBF
But to get back on topic. Please see below 2 examples of the kind of section I am talking about:
EXAMPLE 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
On this page, you will find information relating to:
* green widgets
* widgets grown in california
* wholesale widgets
* safety goggles for widgeting
We hope you find what you are looking for
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
EXAMPLE 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Keywords for this page:
green widgets, widgets grown in california, wholesale widgets, safety goggles for widgeting
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Obviously, example 1 is fine. It is informative, relevant and certainly not "spammy". Example 2 could be considered by some to be "spammy" even though it is 100% relevant.
However, I doubt that google's algo can spot the difference between those types of keyword lists.
So I'm suggesting that example 1 is fine, and should not result in any kind of ban/filter/penalty UNLESS it was hidden text, which it isn't.
Thoses lists don't drastically increase the keyword density and the first one can be seen as a user-orientated helpful feature of the page.
So, what do you think folks?
So they're either gonna throw the baby out with the bath water on this one, or they're gonna let them both through
At the end of my page, I have a Horizontal Rule and then some discrete (slightly smaller, slightly dimmer) text that lists all the keyword combinations that relate to this particular page
Did I miss the point, or did the point change?
Turn those words into links and write a page of content for each one. Trust me, you will be much better off in the long run. And, there will be no need to make the text "discrete (slightly smaller, slightly dimmer).
If you are going to play in the Google sandbox you will probably have to play by their rules.
Regards,
WBF
Most of the time when I see this practice, the designer has dropped a list of words in there that are not targeted anywhere else on the page. This might work for those really obscure non-competitive keywords and phrases, but it won't work for the money phrases.
If you've structured the page properly and have used the many areas that the SEs look at when indexing, then there would be no need for the cheesy practice of adding keyword lists at the bottom of the page.
Again, if the terms you are targeting in these lists are not mentioned elsewhere on the page, they would serve little purpose.
But what google cannot do is tell me how to design my website and that if I don't follow their guidelines...
But wait, their guidelines are there for a reason. If you follow them, you'll be that much further ahead. If you don't follow them, you'll be fighting an uphill battle in your campaign.
Yes, Google and the other search engines can influence how we design our web sites. ;)
You asked for our opinions, and you got them. Obviously some of the opinions here made you peeved. Defining "spam" is different for everyone. Does it help your visitor and not look weird? Good, then do it. I've seen other site owners include a list of keyphrases at the end of their page. It usually says something to the effect of, "Search phrases people have used to find our site"...and then they list a couple dozen phrases. Not sure that it helps the visitor much, but it may come across as being less "spammy"..whatever spam is.
Dave.
reply: NO!
Yeah I guess it could cheapen the page but not if you do it sensitively. And yes, I've researched seo. What a strange question!?!?!
I'm not talking about aesthetics, cheapness, how long visitors stick around etc etc. I'm talking about behind the scenes stuff ie. how does google treat these sections.
but it's OK, I think maybe we've exhaused this topic.
Now, what they class as repeated or misleading is open to interpretation. But if you are optimising, you must have competitors. If you have competitors, some may report your page to the Google address above.
Other search engines do not like it either. Being banned from several major search engines would really defeat the purpose of listing keywords seemlessy randomly. If you really want these words listed, you need to think carefully about the relevance to the page, helping the visitor, and the balance to the search engines.
No person here is calling it spam. People here are merely stating that the search engines may view it as spam. Spam is open to interpretation. Anything to artificially increase your ranking with Google is classed as spam, for example. Very unclear.
Because you are optimising, you must view the search engines as important. So, you must follow their rules and not just your own ideas.
Some people think a ban is not too bad - just change the page back and it will reappear. It does not work like that. It can be months, sometimes years before the engines will relist your 'new' clean (in their opinion) site.
Just somethings to consider before making the change.
People search for "ferari" instead of "ferrari" quite a lot. They only way I could catch those enquiries is if I include the mis-spelling on my site.
Obviously I don't want to spell wrods worng on my page because it looks caerless so that is one reason I would think that a keywords list is a good idea.
We're not the people to ask. You need to ask your users if they find the practice useful or consider it spam.
I can also understand why people are a little bit upset about the practice. You spend ages writing a nice page with lots of useful infomation for people and search engines then suddenly you're dumped in the SERPs for a page which is just list of keywords.
Personally, I don't like the practice. The meta-tags were designed for this approach.
Jim
I'm talking about behind the scenes stuff ie. how does google treat these sections.
The crawlers will simply see the keywords which will up your overall keyword density. May or may not have any effect. Now or in the future. Unlikely to have much effect anyway unless you put them at the top of the page.
<Edit>Be careful with the colours - if your typeface colour is too close to the background colour, the crawlers will probably recognise it as hidden text. I'm not sure at what point the hidden text algo is tripped - keep contrast high to be safe</edit>
A human review, if there ever was one, *might* consider it spam.
The best advice you've had here is the one suggesting you make the words a link, and put some content about those items on the site, or if the content already exists, just link to it. That will have much greater effect in current google algo.
Don't just copy what other people are doing - do it better. Keyword lists are a desperate and poor way of upping your keyword density. It's symptomatic of a poorly designed site - if you have to do it, you've done something wrong. Use the typo's etc in the body of your documents. Write a comedy article full of misspellings.
As an aside, if you don't already have one, build a site map.
TJ
In fact he uses it on all 27 sites that I have found so far!
Go ahead and do what you want to do. If your competitors report you and the search engines penalize you ... then I guess you will find out if it is considered spam or not.
Defining spam is impossible. Algorithms change too frequently and too radically to give a hard and fast definition. However, if you take offense at being accused of spamming ... it would be wise not to use titles like "Hidden Text Method"! ;)
Do you mean other than the fact that it looks kinda odd and funny to your visitors or the fact that it is SEO SPAM?
Not another one.
All SEO is bad as far as the search engines are concerned. We are just discussing what shade of grey.
If you think Google like SEO and think it is their friend, form a queue at the door and we will get Googleguy to come in so you can all give him a big hug.
If you want to hide text there are loads of ways of hiding it completely and the Google algo is NOT picking it up despite the much vaunted 'hidden text algo'. I spam-reported one of my own test sites months ago - its still there.
Would I use on a serious site?
No - because I don't build sites to please Google where it is now, but for where I think Google wants to be, and it wants to ban hidden text.
No matter what people here have told you, and there's lots of experienced guys in this thread, you continue to argue a case many find hopeless.
I have some friends like that. They are so clouded by their own opinion, that they refuse to accept anyone else's. If you're that type of person, don't waste people's time asking for advice. Just do what you feel is right.
But if you do that, understand that you're responsible for your actions. Don't comeback in three months and complain about being "dumped" by Google and Yahoo.
There's no point arguing over this issue anymore. I won't apologize for being blunt.
no...an observation!
Exhausted...i was just getting started?!
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Just a short question...if i put the word widgets in my <title> <h1> <h2> <h3> and repeat it atleast 12 times in my meta tags, repeat it 3 hundred times in my <body> tag will i be top for widgets? its just a back-end thing im not intrested in presentation my website stinks as it is!
All SEO is considered spamming by Google - we are the enemy.
Why do you really think Googleguy posts here? 'Cos he thinks we are his buddies?
You may think you are a Whitehat, but as far as G is concerned we are all Greyhats who muddy up their SERPS.
You're wrong, google isn't the enemy it's those damn searchers. They won't type in my 12 word long key phrases.
The blighters.
