Meta Tag Description

How long? Conflicting advice...

[Psmith0000]

Hi. I have two quick questions about the meta tag:description. I have read conflicting advice on the length of the meta:description content. Should it be 150 characters or 1000?

Also, is this the wording that would appear on a search engine result? Or is it the wording on the title bar that would appear? Or does it depend upon the search engine?

Thanks for your help.

[jdMorgan]

Psmith0000,

150 to 190 characters would be much more reasonable. Take a look at some random search results on various engines and search portals, and you'll see that they will truncate descriptions after reaching a certain length... Each one is different, though.

Since the description is what will appear in the search results on many engines, keeping the description reasonably short and focused is a good thing. Otherwise its ability to attract visitors can suffer, especially if it gets cut off before you make your point!

Google, which provides search results for many search portals will use a 'snippet' of text from your page - text that their algorithm determines best fits the search terms entered by the user. Google will also show the description from the ODP listing if your site is listed there.

HTH,
Jim

[Oaf357]

jdMorgan is right on this one. I like to take it a step further and keep them under or right at 150 characters (including spaces, punctuation, etc.). It's hard to do but it can be done.

[pageoneresults]

I'm in agreement on this one too. I keep them at 160 or less where applicable.

<title>
7 words or less

<description>
160 characters or less

Description is usally mirrored from the first paragraph on the page. Contains same keywords and phrases mentioned in <title> and <h>.

<keywords>
20 words or less

Same theory. Keywords should be extracted from your <title>, <description>, <h> and first paragraph on the page.

[rebellion]

I was curious about something, since I had seen you mention it. When trying to optimize keywords, should it be home decor, or home, decor? Or both? The reason I ask is because you mentioned you should have 20 keywords or less and this is one way of trimming down the amount of keywords I have. I have several instances of doing this and if I could eliminate the repitition, that would be good. Look forward to your reply.

[pageoneresults]

Hello rebellion, Welcome to WebmasterWorld!

When trying to optimize keywords, should it be home decor, or home, decor?

If you were to read the W3C, they recommend a comma separated list of terms for the keywords tag. I dropped commas years ago after seeing many suggestions that there may have been better results without them. It's a tough call, either or, it doesn't matter. Although, I believe there are a few crawler based search engines who suggest a comma separated list too.

If you can get creative by running a string of 20 words and come up with numerous phrase combinations, then try it without commas. It won't really matter that much as the tag is given little to no relevance depending on the indexing resource. Pull your keywords and phrases from <title>, <description>, <h> and first paragraph on the page.

The arguments back then were if you removed the commas, you allowed the spider to index a string of keywords and possible keyword phrase combinations. When using commas, you were relegated to more specific phrase searches, those phrases that appeared between the commas.

[Skylo]

Hi guys. Pageoneresults I like your numbers you use when referring to your metas. I must add though, without undermining what anyone has said, especially those with great experience, I have read many people say that less relevance is being placed on metas. Of course your title is important but I must agree with the rest. I have seen google choose it's own description for my site until I changed it again.

Also people rank above me and below with less keywords and optimisation in their metas. Anyway just my 2 cents

cheers

[Oaf357]

Nice breakdown, pageoneresults.

I might have to do some serious reworking of my title tags in the near future though if I were to follow those guidelines.

My titles are currently using this structure:

"[Site Name] - [Section Name] - PAGE TITLE"

Which can often times be very long. The reason I'm doing it is so that people know exactly where they are at on the site but the question is... should I do it this way or is there a better way.

[pageoneresults]

"[Site Name] - [Section Name] - PAGE TITLE"

There are a few different ways to approach this. I would normally do this...

<title>Page Title - Section Name - Site Name</title>

Typically the Site Name is of least importance. Unless of course you have a keyword rich site name, then you can alter the sequence depending on the Page Title.

If the Page Titles and Section Names are too lengthy, you may want to drop the Site Name or replace it with an acronym if possible. The shorter the title, the better. Why? I just think short titles are much more effective than long rambling titles.

Your primary keyword phrase for that page should appear first in the Page Title. You can also move it around a little depending on the Section Name.

If the Section Name is keyword rich and is part of establishing a theme for that section, then it should probably go first with the Page Title following.

Get creative. I've done amazing things with Page Titles just by making sure that certain phrases can be achieved based on the order of the words in the title. Many times, it does not matter if the primary keyword phrase is at the beginning, sometimes you just hit the perfect combination and will never need to touch that title again.

[Psmith0000]

Oh! Oaf, You need to read my post on Page Titles at

[webmasterworld.com...]

I am looking for some more feedback on that very issue!

I was searching title bars! Duh. Page titles. Let me get cracking.

[pageoneresults]

Here is some additional information from the authoritative resource on Title Elements and other Meta Data...

From the W3C
7.4.2 The Title Element [w3.org]

From the W3C
B.4 Notes on helping search engines index your Web site [w3.org]

If there is one place I spend a lot of time, it's at the W3C. I've gleaned as many tips from there as I have from these forums. The W3C shows you how to build a site that is search engine friendly. If you can get past the cryptic explanations, you will be that much further ahead. I've been visiting the W3C now since late 1998.

It is the ultimate resource on all things related to site structure and design.

P.S. After WebmasterWorld of course! ;)

[pageoneresults]

Let me also add that many have referred to the Title Element as Meta Data when it is not. Yes, it does appear in the <head> section of your document, but it is not classified as Meta Data.

Don't be confused between Title Element and Title Attribute, those are two totally different elements.

[ken_b]

I just recently experimented with the order of words a bit in page <TITLE>s.

Previously all my pages had

site name > basic page title > descriptor

I dropped the site name completely. Now titles are...

1: basic title > descriptor > Site theme

or

2: site theme > basic title > descriptor

the first group seem to perform better, though there may well be other reasons for that.

edited ... [ off to read Pageones suggested links, apparently I have a bit more to learn :) ]

[Oaf357]

We all have more to learn, ken_b. That's why we're here. Between converting over the CSS and reworking page titles I'm going to be a busy boy.

[Psmith0000]

This group has been almost solely responsible for us being found on page 1 of a desired search term yesterday. I am so delighted with this forum and have requested the funds for our company join as preferred members.

Thank you everyone for the wonderful detailed information that you provide.

[Robert Charlton]

Here are some good title threads.

[webmasterworld.com...]
[webmasterworld.com...]
[webmasterworld.com...]

Site search or a Google search of WebmasterWorld should unearth more. Try searching on Google, eg, for

site:webmasterworld.com title characters long

A good general principle regarding titles:

Choose your search phrases carefully, focus your pages, and build content around your page focus.

Regarding description length, I used to write descriptions less than 250 characters but with the essential elements all included in the first 150. That way you could get your display (in the first part), and include more stuff if you couldn't control yourself. More recently, I've found that my descriptions have naturally grown shorter as I place less emphasis on them for ranking... No need to get every little keyword in, I feel. It's more important to spend time with the content on the page.