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Using ALT tags?

all of them or not?

         

jojojo

1:04 am on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi everyone. I run a site that has 40 images on it and it is only 1 page deep. If i am trying to optimize for a certain keyword should I put that keyword into every single image's alt tag or should I use a few different ones too - like secondary names?

keyplyr

4:05 am on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



The ALT [w3.org] attribute is defined in a set of tags (namely, img, area and optionally for input and applet) to allow you to provide a text equivalent for the object so that handicapped users, or those using non-image browses, may accurately identify the missing image. Use the attribute for what is is intended, i.e., describe the image.

lorax

4:14 am on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



A good discussion on the use of ALT tags as holders for keywords (or not) can be found here [webmasterworld.com].

andreasfriedrich

11:55 am on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Just to clear up the syntax a bit:

elements = starttag [content] [endtag]
starttag = <elementname attributes*>
attributes = name="value"

IMG [w3.org], BODY [w3.org], A [w3.org] are elements which consist out of a starttag, some content and an endtag. In empty elements there is no content. In HTML quite a few endtags are optional. In XHTML they are not. The starttag may contain attributes which consist of a name and a value.

Using the correct syntax will help to know what people are talking about and will make searching a lot easier since you can just search for the alt [w3.org] attribute or the IMG [w3.org] element.

Andreas

new_shoes

12:08 pm on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

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As far as I have understood, you should always use "alt" tags to describe the point of the image. Users of lynx and audio browsers rely heavily on alt tags.

However, the IMG tag can also take a "title" attribute, which IMO google is less restrictive about.

So IF I am right, something like this won't get you penalized:

<IMG SRC="enter.gif" alt="click here to enter my site" title="shiny, dotty widgets">

What the "title" attribute is supposed to do, is show up as a tooltip, so IE doesn't actually comply with the HTML specs when it shows the "alt"-text as a tooltip (at least, thats the help files in Mozilla tell me). However, when both "alt" and "title" is present, IE handle it correctly.

MHes

12:11 pm on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi

Alt tag has been abused for too long so I suspect it is read by google with caution. No more than 4 words describing the image is the correct way to do it, and no words for a blank gif used as a spacer.

However, if you can describe the image in a way that helps the user + get a keyword in.... thats sensible and may help your ranking. If you use the same phrase for all the images I reckon google will smell a rat. So be accurate and helpfull.... but try and use a keyword where possible.

andreasfriedrich

12:18 pm on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>Alt tag has been

?!?

MHes

12:51 pm on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



andreasfriedrich - Alt tag has had keywords stuffed into them, I've seen examples of 30+ keywords.

ciml

1:51 pm on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



alt attribute content is very useful in HTML for people who can't see the images. It is implied in INPUT elements (strict & transitional) and APPLET elements (transitional only), but it is required in IMG and AREA elements.

As MHes points out, it has been abused so search engines may not look kindly on it.

The W3C have a draft HTML4 Test Suite, which is useful for testing search engine robots as well as user agents. If you search for the following you'll see what I mean (including quotes):

"below cannot be displayed so the text" passes

"below cannot be displayed so the text"

The behaviour is different if the IMG is in a link.

Jakpot

7:56 pm on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I use the alt tags -- carefully

kyr01

8:09 pm on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

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andreasfriedrich - Alt tag has had keywords stuffed into them

I suppose Andreas was only pointing out that ALT is an attribute, not a tag. W3 has a page about the use of the alt attribute [w3.org]

lorax

8:16 pm on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



kyr01,
I think you are correct - and I should be more careful. Alt is an attribute.

andreasfriedrich

12:11 am on Mar 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Thanks kyr01. Thatīs exactly what I tried to do. I donīt want to seem too picky but I just believe that in the long run using common and correct terms will serve everybody.

Andreas

jomaxx

12:25 am on Mar 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Whatever. Getting back to the original question, I would be careful about putting the same keywords into all your images. Fit keywords in *as appropriate* or you may be courting trouble, plus your site will end up looking amateurish.

Also, unless the search phrase you're targeting is "spacer", I wouldn't ever put keywords into 1-pixel gif's.

nyehouse

12:38 am on Mar 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member




Didn't someone show that Google now ignores ALT tags that are not on images that are clickable?

GrinninGordon

12:58 am on Mar 23, 2003 (gmt 0)



new_shoes
title="shiny, dotty widgets" should be in your a href tag, alt="shiny, dotty widgets" is what you put in your img tag.

nyehouse
Disagree. I think Google pays attention to alt tags and gives some credit for them. They also penalise sites with excessive / Spam alts, be warned. That is where the old spammers used to spam most.

jojojo
I think img and alt's are important for a number of reasons. If I have, say, 7 or more .jpgs (don't do this with gif images - Google look on these as lesser images). I like to make sure my images contain the main keyword in two of the image names. I like to make sure the image name blue-widget.jpg has the alt "My Blue Widget". I also like to make sure all my keywords are used somewhere, and / or associated words.

Images are, IMHO, not big for competitive keywords, but every little helps. Also, I truly believe if you are smart, they will help you a LOT with secondary keywords.

g1smd

12:30 pm on Mar 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



The alt is an attribute as has been pointed out in msg#2 and msg#11; let's use the correct words, please.

The alt attribute is a required element in HTML 4.01, so for spacer images you should use alt="" and for bullet point images you can use alt="*" for example.

Try browsing this or any other forum with the image loading turned off. Without the alt attribute, you wouldn't know which button was which.

jojojo

12:37 pm on Mar 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



whoa, thanks for all the replies.

So specifically if I have 40 images all the time.

How many can I use for my primary keyword? 4?

Should I use 4 pics per keyword? and then target 4 other secondary keywords?

georgeek

12:52 pm on Mar 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



My current assumption is that the ALT text of an image will not be indexed by Google unless the image is a link to another page.

I would be interested if anyone thinks otherwise.

toddb

1:52 pm on Mar 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Georgeek, I am pretty sure I saw that proved in another thread. I know they are indexed if the image is linked. But not linked I think the alt atribute is ignored.

new_shoes

3:36 pm on Mar 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



GrinninGordon wrote:
title="shiny, dotty widgets" should be in your a href tag, alt="shiny, dotty widgets" is what you put in your img tag.

You can also use it in hrefs, but I was suggesting using title in imgs for SEO purposes. From Phoenix Browser FAQ:

Many sites uses the alt HTML property to display tooltips for images. This is wrong. The correct property to use for tooltips is title. The alt property has a very important purpose, which is to provide replacement text for images in browsers that cannot or do not (by user's choice) display images, and if graphical browsers display them as tooltips people will be discouraged from using them for their correct purpose.

x3nos

6:33 pm on Mar 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



new_shoes: The point is taken, that title and alt are both misunderstood and abused in the webmaster world. ALT is for an "alternative text" that will in most browsers, except IE show while the image loads and is intended for those that use non-image browsers. Title on the other hand is used to show a tooltip like message about the image or link that the image goes to.

We all know IE is not a compliant with w3c specs and that Mozilla for the most part is, but what this difference of opinion has done, is left us a way to better optimize our pages. With careful consideration, and a thoughtful eye to moderate these attributes benefits and exploit their ability to better show what product or service your are marketing, then why argue semantics and lets use this to benefit ourselves and our customer base, yes? And I believe this was GrinninGordon's original intent.