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Stupid Bosses

Pulling hair out trying to explain search engines

         

Weblamer

2:02 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



ANyone else here ever go nuts trying to explain search enging listing strageties to an extreamly non-technical boss?

I have a boss who types his search terms into, not a search engine, but the address box in the IE browser window. It naturaly defaults to MSN (cuz that is how his computer is set up) He is convinced this is the proper way to search the web, and gets upset when some abritary phrase he types in does not cause his website to appear #1 in the MSN search listings.

Just wondering if everyone else has nice, techno-savvy bosses, or if there are alot of dilbert-type bosses out there.

agerhart

2:04 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Weblamer, you are definitely not alone. I know many, many people that work for bosses that don't understand anything about SEO or search engines, and it can make for some very difficult discussions.

Mike_Mackin

2:09 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Can you get your boss to read THIS [searchenginewatch.com]

NFFC

2:12 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>go nuts trying to explain search enging listing strageties to an extreamly non-technical boss?

Tell him/her to mind their own business and leave the job to the expert. This is a high risk stratagy but has always worked for me :)

Weblamer

2:13 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



NO.

Honest to god, I cannot. My boss has his job because his buddy owns the company. No college degree or nothing. In fact, last 'meeting' I had with him i drew CARTOONS to represent what i was trying to explain. <sigh>

brotherhood of LAN

2:25 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Weblamer...provide him URL's of all the search results and point to the "powered by google" and "powered by ODP" banners :) then ask him if he want to be top of MSN or something bigger. :)

stuart

2:29 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Toothcomb your job contract and maybe start your own business website, in a year from now you could tell your boss whatever you like. (Although its never good to burn ya bridges;-)!!!)

Travoli

2:39 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I also feel your pain, Weblamer. Not easy to explain SEO to "outsiders" that think they know more than you.

fathom

2:44 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Tell me in terms I can understand?

Talk to me like I'm a grade two student.

For every dollar you spend in web marketing today you'll get two bucks back by the end of the year...

Comes to mind!

knighty

2:58 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Just edit his prefences so that searching form the address bar doesnt work or get him to use a different computer.

caine

2:59 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



bosses of other companies that i do work for, generally ain't got a clue about what they want,

"i want a big flashing website saying i want your money because this website flashes, looks really trendy, and generally a search engine and browser are not going to have a problem becuase it makes my ego expand when i am viewing it on my state of the art computer with the latest edition of IE"

equizze me, but thats why you make no money from your trendy flashy website, you presume to know > my tack is take the line of an authority (lol), tell them what is going to happen (not alot), then when it does, say i told you so (be careful), now may i have a go > tell me how much your prepared to spend (max this out), let me do some research in kw's and competition, and i will come back to you and let you know exactly what i propose, and i will get on with it.

My boss is pretty cool, he can get extremely heavy with computers, but leaves me with all the website stuff, with a somewhat unrestricted budget, which i only have to explain why we need to spend it (i've got to be convinced on the ROI). Reason was, when i took on the project, i did what two other so called web designers/programmers could'nt, put the brand and products up with a shout.

Weblamer

3:01 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Lol. That editing preferences remark is actually not a bad idea.

I had to develope the last version of our website to fit a 640x480 screen because that is that his preferences are set to. I once changed it to 800x600 for him, but he whined that he 'could not see' anything. I found it easier to redeisgn the entire website than to aregure with him. (I am not contract, I am a full time employee. So I do what the boss likes, even if it's bad for business)

Mark_A

3:03 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Fathom most bosses I know would like some "evidence" for that statement :-)

Never bite the hand that feeds you springs to mind...

More important Weblamer you are always going to find if you specialise in something that you will have to find ways to explain it in normal jargon free language to people who pay your bills but don't know the tech jargon.

My recommendation: Treat him like a challenge.. using normal everyday language sell him on the merits of what you are doing, why it is a challenge, what can be gained, how to measure results and how much he should increase your budget by... :-)

Torben Lundsgaard

3:17 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



When I'm trying to explain SEO to a potential client I usually don't make a sale. However, when I focus on making money on SE traffic (ROI) they listen.

Explain to your boss how much you need ($) and keep it on a need to know basis. Forget about rankings. Show him traffic reports and ROI.

If he still doesn't let you do your job I would start looking for a new job.

Axacta

3:49 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have always found that the horse is more likely to drink if you lead him to water with questions instead of answers. This takes tact and time (you can't change his mind in one or two discussions), but educating someone who is reluctant to be educated is more successful when letting them think they have discovered the answers themselves, rather than cramming them down their throat. Use examples instead of just "telling him like it is", and ask questions with fairly obvious answers, so that he gets the feeling that he is educating you.

As I understand it one of the major reasons Japan rebounded from the second world war to become an economic powerhouse (I know they have problems know) was their adoption of an employment structure somewhat different from the western world's. Instead of a strictly pyramidal hierarchical structure, it was more of a tree like structure.

In the western structure the boss of any department makes all of the decisions, so when the janitor needs floor cleaner someone up the chain makes the decision which floor cleaner to purchase. Whereas in the Japanese structure the janitor is considered the expert on floor cleaners and he makes the decision which cleaner to buy.

EliteWeb

3:51 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I had a sales guy call me up and tell me that is how the majority of people search. Guess who the sales guy was for ? the Real Keywords people (or whatever), the people you pay so your site comes up when you type in those keywords. heheheh the crazy thing is they filed for bankruptcy or something to that sort a week later.

fathom

4:33 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I had to develope the last version of our website to fit a 640x480 screen because that is that his preferences are set to. I once changed it to 800x600 for him, but he whined that he 'could not see' anything. I found it easier to redeisgn the entire website than to aregure with him.

It's a hard thing to do and it maybe the boss's company, however, if the market is at "say" -- 1024 x 768 it's not just bad business, it's called incompetence.

On the other hand, the boss is just ingorant to the dire consequences. Should a customer ever point this out to him, whom will he blame, the customer or himself? Re-think your approach - the boss will thank you and may even give you a raise for your persistence. The eventual alternative can be worst - the boss hiring someone else who is not just knowledgeable but persoanbable and is unequivocal in their convictions along with the possibility firing you.

"i want a big flashing website saying i want your money because this website flashes, looks really trendy, and generally a search engine and browser are not going to have a problem

I believe you can have both flashy and SERP's as long as the flash is what the market actually wants.

Haven't had the opportunity to take a Flash site to #1, but Shockwave with only a modest amount of text in Google competing with 1.2 million other pages using the phrase --- sea pressure.

Nothing spammish about this, just good use of DMOZ and a few clones!

Fathom most bosses I know would like some "evidence" for that statement :-)

Hmmm... good point!

Past results should be evidence enough.

Never bite the hand that feeds you springs to mind...

I bite it every day with at least two clients!

But they pay for the knowledge that I know not lip service and if that knowledge can not be implemented then they are paying me for "NOT DOING MY JOB".

They tend to quickly forget about the chucks missing from the butts when I remind them of that. :)

grnidone

11:04 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)



Ask your boss what his goals are.

And then, don't say anything. Let him ramble so you can learn about him.

You have to sell the site changes to him, and you can't sell something to someone unless you know what they want.

Once you know what they want, you can dig and find the facts that will best sell your 'case' to him.

You can't lead a horse to water and make him drink.

You have to make the horse realize he is thirsty and that you hold the bucket of water.

agerhart

11:46 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



That should be the quote of the week Grnidone!

mivox

11:55 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



You have to make the horse realize he is thirsty and that you hold the bucket of water.

Most horses I've met are smart enough to figure that out without much convincing... unlike many people. Probably because the horse isn't equipped with a great big ego standing between them and the water bucket.

fathom

1:39 am on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



That's a horse of a different color!

bigjohnt

2:36 am on Jul 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



You need to make him aware, that HIS success at optimization is directly related to HIS ability commit the necessary resources and to let you do your job. He'll get the bragging rights for knowing whom to trust. :)