Forum Moderators: open
[edited by: seth_wilde at 5:22 pm (utc) on Jan. 31, 2006]
I know that it's a very difficult place for a ppc advertiser to lurk, but then again, you Are feeding them... just a thought.
No, this isn't directed to 7search in particular, just ppc in general. If it's ppc, it IS in gpf. You don't have to 'join' ptr sites, to see who's running Your ads, you just need to Look. take a look at some mainpages. Of course joining sites, will give you a better 'idea' of the scope, and you'll Never in your lifetime again spend a dime on the 2nd tier, plus you'll likely encounter some of the new 0-iframe shams running the entire ppc spectrum, it's actually quite interesting stuff.
The new 'forced-search' ptr sites, are generating a 90% clickthrough rate for 'Their' 'Advertisers', how are you guys doing?
Sorry, don't mean to sound callous about it, but it takes a prod sometimes, to get peoples attention...
general discussion folder in getpaidforum is 'enlightening'...
[edited by: engine at 11:21 am (utc) on Feb. 18, 2006]
watchthis said:
Has anybody else noticed a 0% ROI with 7search recently?
I've actually noticed a very good ROI. Could it be your campaign watchthis? You seem to be very down on PPC providers that aren't Yahoo or Google. Maybe it's time to try SEO.
Also for the record I do very well with Enhance, Miva (most of the time) but 7search seems a worthless
On top of that why is their spyware on my computer? Why do they partner with companies like coolwebsearch and umaxsearch? Why are the forums of their partners like umaxsearch and kilkrevenue all in Russian? Care to shine light on the subject?
As for organic SEO, I am ranked first in Google and Yahoo and Teoma for over 40 of my search terms and in the top 10 for over 200 search terms. My organic SEO is very good given the competition and I invesr heavily in it.
How I determine that 7search is junk traffic is when I compare the actions of the visitors referred to me by it compared to the normal organic traffic I get from one of the search engines.
Especially when I find that 30% of them come from French PTR sites. I also find it equally upsetting when I contact 7search support who claim their first loyalty is to their advertisers and give them ref urls and ips and get told that im paranoid. I can post such urls here and expose them. Am I allowed to do that Seth Wilde or is it against the forum TOS? I'm not clear on whether the truth with evidence can be considered as slandering a company. Please let me know.
[edited by: seth_wilde at 7:25 pm (utc) on Feb. 17, 2006]
Is there click-fraud? Yes there is.
Is it “good” for business? No it is not.
Advertisers are a savvy group and they vote with their dollars. In their dealings with ppc search engines, they want value for their money. When they don’t receive it, they lower their bids or take their campaigns elsewhere. Neither alternative is good for our business. It has been evident from the start that poor, non-converting traffic is the bane of our existence.
We pride ourselves on our aggressive fraud detection system and personnel. 7Search knows that the only way for us to succeed in the search business is to protect our advertisers’ interests. We have built our business and reputation by taking an aggressive stance against click-fraud. To do so, we developed and use patent pending anti-fraud software which enables our fraud detection personnel to proactively evaluate search traffic and intermittently test all affiliate traffic. Additionally, we respond quickly when any advertiser detects unusual click patterns.
In a network as large as the Internet, people oftentimes try to make a quick and easy buck. We understand that tendency and that is why we stay vigilant. We have strict policies NOT to allow "PTR" (paid to read) sites or any incentivised traffic and we take those policies very seriously. When we uncover a scheme or any unusual or non-converting traffic, we immediately block the offender, take back any revenue available and return the funds to the appropriate advertisers.
7Search has been around a long, long time and we have worked with thousands of advertisers on various campaigns. We have succeeded in the past and will continue to accomplish our goals in the future by providing valuable search traffic and by protecting the advertiser’s interests.
Finally, 7Search has no “spyware” or “adware”. If there is spyware on your computer it came from somewhere else. The BrowserAccelerator “tracking” software is sometimes linked to 7Search. The software has been evaluated by Symantec and other anti-spyware organizations and it was categorized as “TRACKWARE” and is a non-threat with a RISK IMPACT as ‘LOW”.
Visit [securityresponse.symantec.com...] or [securityresponse.symantec.com...] to read their determinations.
But then, the people whose computers I remove this sort of software from probably had a momentary lapse of concentration when they voluntarily installed such programs to "enhance their browsing experience"...
More than 90% of their traffic comes from paid to read or paid to click sites they partner with. Does that mean that they officially accept that kind of traffic as legitimate and useful to advertisers?
I second that he can say whatever he wants, it doesnt make it true at all. They claim to give advertisers a better ROI than google, can they back this claim up? No, they can not because it is not true.
Every other second tier ppc ut there makes the same statement as he does word for word is he more credible than they are? The quality of traffic from his networks suggests not.
"Additionally, we respond quickly when any advertiser detects unusual click patterns."
Respond quickly? No they do not, they just credit your account and say here have some more junk traffic.
"In a network as large as the Internet, people oftentimes try to make a quick and easy buck. We understand that tendency and that is why we stay vigilant. We have strict policies NOT to allow "PTR" (paid to read) sites or any incentivised traffic and we take those policies very seriously. When we uncover a scheme or any unusual or non-converting traffic, we immediately block the offender, take back any revenue available and return the funds to the appropriate advertisers."
This is rubbish. I know of several sites I have reported to them that they have not done a thing about. Why not let him come here to the forum and we can put it all infront of him.
"7Search has been around a long, long time and we have worked with thousands of advertisers on various campaigns."
Yes but how many of them are returning customers, and how many only used you once and feel ripped off?
"Finally, 7Search has no “spyware” or “adware”. If there is spyware on your computer it came from somewhere else. The BrowserAccelerator “tracking” software is sometimes linked to 7Search. The software has been evaluated by Symantec and other anti-spyware organizations and it was categorized as “TRACKWARE” and is a non-threat with a RISK IMPACT as ‘LOW”."
Rubbish. They obtain traffic via feeding engines like coolwebsearch.com and umaxsearch.com. Let him try and tell me these sites do not use spyware. Let him try.
Lets check it out. Firstly lets look at the site in the subjects profile websiteservices.com. It seems to display ads by 7search but thats no issue really that your one of the publishers for this company so lets look around some more:
Lets look at the domain 7search.com. Already i see something in common, they have the same host names:
Domain Name: 7SEARCH.COM
Registrar: TUCOWS INC.
Whois Server: whois.opensrs.net
Referral URL: [domainhelp.tucows.com...]
Name Server: NS1.WATCH24.COM
Name Server: NS2.EMERGENCY24.COM
Domain Name: WEBSITESERVICES.COM
Registrar: TUCOWS INC.
Whois Server: whois.opensrs.net
Referral URL: [domainhelp.tucows.com...]
Name Server: NS1.WATCH24.COM
Name Server: NS2.EMERGENCY24.COM
What are the odds of that?
But lets look at the ips, that may be interesting too,
208.237.254.7 and 208.237.254.40 for the two different domains. Very close together, could even be on the same cluster couldnt they?
Lets look at the adresses 1008 W Fry St, Chicago, IL 60622 and Chicago, IL 60641 USA.
Its a small world isnt it guys?
Its harmful to legitimate networks and I'm not going to sit around and watch you blast away with false statements about anybody - show me the proof.
I'd like to see this forum become a source of helpful information, not just drive-by slams.
I'll just keep repeating this - if you are a 7Search advertiser and you notice traffic that does not convert, tell your customer support rep, 7Search won't send it to you. If a rogue affiliate managed to fraudulently earn a few dollars - the advertisers affected get their monies refunded.
People have been calling 7Search a scam since day one (that's 1999 for those keeping track - without changing our name) but it still does not make it true. 7Search advertisers know that the solutions work very well - otherwise they would not stay and we'd be out of business.
I'm not hiding - if I was I wouldn't use the same IP address. If anybody wants to know more about me or my affiliations I'd be happy to share - just send me an email.
And you watchthis, who are you affiliated with. I mean, if we're all into disclosure I think it's fair that we all know. I didn't notice a URL in your user profile.
Sorry the truth doesn't help YOU and 7Search.
Like I said, I tested 7Search for multiple clients between 2003-2005 and none of them converted well at all. The results were as bad as any 2nd tier CPC.
I promise you I am not an employee of another 2nd tier CPC company trying to slander 7Search.
What we as a group tend to not teach newer advertisers is that some campaigns work on some networks and not as well on others. PPC players should admit that we're not Yahoo or Google. Some verticals are stong at 7Search, some are not. Some verticals are strong at Miva, some are not. It's a matter of finding balance in your overall PPC marketing campaign. I know because I personally (not in my 7Search consulting position) use 7Search, MIVA, Kanoodle and Enhance.
If someone were to say they got a zero ROI through Adwords or YSM, multiple reccomendations would be given about how to optimize a campaign. All I'm asking for is the same consideration to be given to any company in the pay per click market. Let's start calling out rogue affiliates and poor traffic sources as a group, looking at the quality of landing pages, SERP titles and descriptions before saying things like scam or my new personal favorite - illusion.
[google.com...]
[google.com...]
...Some verticals are stong at 7Search, some are not. Some verticals are strong at Miva, some are not. It's a matter of finding balance in your overall PPC marketing campaign. I know because I personally (not in my 7Search consulting position) use 7Search, MIVA, Kanoodle and Enhance...
New advertisers should feel free to try 2nd tier programs like 7Search when they offer a free trial. Maybe you do offer a free trial? If you believe in your product it only makes sense to try and attract new advertisers that way.
I know Yahoo and Google offer free trials.
Can you confirm if 7Search offers free trials to new advertisers wsm2006?
I'm not sure why we don't offer free a credit at sign up but I'll find out. I know some require an advertiser to match in order to get the credit.
There are other verticals than those suggested (ptr, paid to surf). Anyone can look at the current bid prices and expected traffic for their search terms at the website.
There are other verticals than those suggested (ptr, paid to surf).
