No meta descriptions

[Pete]

Quick note to confirm. Have been pushed down to 2 for one of my search terms. New site has no description tag. Description = first copy on page (keyword + fluff + keyword in Bold.

The rest of the site uses flash with some hyperlink text

[Brett_Tabke]

How are you doing now? We've been up/down/in/out about a dozen times over the last week. Some of our older pages seem to have stablized, but the new stuff just isn't producing. I've been going through my pages that alta likes and linking back to the pages alta doesn't like. That should give scooter a bread crumb trail to follow and hopefully raise some relavance on those other pages. I really think scooter is dumb enough to be giving "in site" links a 'popularity' boost.

[Pete]

Hi Brett.

Same experience here. None of the pages that I have submitted in the last two weeks are in. Also had some serious changes in the results pages. Had a number of doorway pages doing well including my top traffic performers (two doorway pages - single page.com domains) which held no. 1 position for ages. They are all gone (Still in the database but nowhere in the results). Awhile back when everyone stated that their doorways had been kicked, mine stuck and held their positions beautifully.

Regarding "in site" links. Could well be the case. Luckily, two large sites which have been in the database for awhile are performing very well. Both provide a "rough" fit for your theme profile.

Also, optimized a page with very little text. "web cam" appearing in title and first text on visible page. No description and meta tags. Held its position for awhile but is now gone. The page that I spoke about below has also lost some ground.

We have been registering and designing one page domains and have charged on a per click thru basis. Your theme info and my experiences indicate that this revenue model may be on the way out. I will be submitting my first "theme" otimized site on thursday.

Will let you know how I get on. Thanks for the help.

Pete

[Pete]

Followed Bretts AV suggestions - in the top 10 for a couple of our companies key terms - Thanks. Made one change - left out the meta description and keyword tag.

I have uploaded a new theme site. Hosting it on an old non-performing domain. However, had problems regarding getting it indexed. Still the old page appears. Anyone else had this problem - whats the best way to get the new site indexed a.s.a.p?

[rcjordan]

Pete,
I'm currently not tracking my AV stuff well enough to make comment... but I do have a question so that I can process it in background mode for a while. You're saying that (other than the themes issues) the site has gone way up the ranks with ZERO key/descr metas?? I, too, dropped metas some time ago and my gut call is that the pages are holding their own. Also, do you have any javascript on the pages that now rank in the top 10?

[Pete]

RC,

Question 1:
Thats exactly what I am saying. But and a big but!, I have had a mixed bag as well. Today has been a brilliant day for me regarding AV. After submitting this post. Went in and found top three rankings for two key terms. These did have metas!.

My theme sight is in but not featuring (In the 50's for selected 8 terms) so back to the drawing board.

Question: 2
Javascript. Yes. Quite a few of these high ranked pages do have javascript (installed humanclick) and as yet no problems.

I have a question for you guys?
As mentioned, I have had some pages achieve excellent positions thanks to the tips I picked up here in a very short space of time. However, have had pages with identical profiles not make it including the theme site. Is it possible that A.V is applying a time penalty to some of the pages submitted. Interesting - theme sites a new domain. others which have done very well are old domains, previously in the database which have been re-optimized.(probably irrelevant)

Handed my resignation in today at my full time employment. Entering the world of full time search engine optimization and traffic building. So, hopefully will start adding value as opposed to receiving it.

regards
Pete

[Brett_Tabke]

In the past, say from mid 1999 backward, we would run in the feast and famine cycle. You'd have one page out of 40 doing great and then the next one a different one would take off (optimized differently). That one gem of a page with 40 dogs was the norm for years.

With themes it is a different ball game. I am finding with themes I am getting a whole mess of pages (50-60) that rank nearly the same in the 20-50 position under a broader set of keywords. I'm starting to like this because my initial trials on it in january and feb, show that people coming in on those themed pages are sticking around longer (4.5 hits per user vs 3.6 for the older style pages). Open to discussion as to why that is that way. I'm wondering if the results really are more accurate and people are finding the info they want.

Yes, alta does turn up/down the time penalty for new and old pages. Currently looks like any page over six months is getting a boost.

>Handed my resignation in today at my full time employment.

Oh man just what we need - more competition! lol. Congrats.

[engine]

With themes, I presume, pete, you've waited for scooter to do the indexing. It seems to me that themes will only work if scooter pays a visit and deep spiders. It will then have the picture of the site. Without scooter doing this, how will AV's index know if its got the whole site and whole theme?
Good luck with the new career.

[Brett_Tabke]

It only uses the pages in it's database. It appears that 8 or 12 pages are the first cut off point where themes are used.

I don't fully understand it, but there is some sort of 'kicker' at 40 pages also. Numerous domains we did this with in Jan/feb, didn't show a boost until we hit 40 pages in Alta. I don't get that bit, but you don't have to know how an internal combustion engine works to drive a car.

[rcjordan]

Pete,
Good to hear about the javascript... that was the conclusion I had made (no ill effects) but I wanted to get it from a "newly upped" page, and from someone that was monitoring closely. FWIW, the only negative I've had w/ javascript occurred about a year ago --I found a script I loved (sponsors were willing to PAY to be included in the script --that's why I loved it) and in my rush to please, I dropped this 35K script at the top of some of my best pages. AV absolutely NUKED those pages, I assume most of the damage was done because the javascript displaced the indexable content. Now, I move all large script to stylesheets and there's no problem.

Brett,

themed pages are sticking around longer (4.5 hits per user vs 3.6 for the older style pages). Open to discussion as to why that is that way. I'm wondering if the results really are more accurate and people are finding the info they want.

I've been "themed" in content for some time now, my pageviews per user averages 6 or better. Even on a site that I developed thinking it was going to be "come in, grab info, and get out" they are averaging 4 pages per visit --which I really had a hard time believing, but Flycast sends the check, so I believe. My vote is "yes," the new themed algos are hitting their mark.

[engine]

That's interesting about how few pages are required, then about 40-pages. Ive got a couple of small, 5/6-page sites and i'll try some experimentation.

[Brett_Tabke]

I'm inclined to think that it is about 10 to 15 with Alta, but more with Ink. It has been difficult to sort out Ink due to the Link factors, Age factors, and Theme Factors. It feels like more for Ink. I'm still short of convinced, but I think Ink will take every page on your site that can, every link leading back to your site (keywords in the link), every title of every page leading back to your site to generate your theme. It is far more complex than we are giving them credit for.

They were able to take a larget set of third level sites that are mostly ecom sites on the same host, break them apart and deliver hits right on the proper keywords. Only themes or human hand could do that. Amazing.

[SeoFever]

Running on up to the original subject line of this thread (ya'll wandered), we have seven pages on the top page of results. 3 don't use meta keyword tags, and 4 have short ones under 100 characters long with no spam.

Kris