2004 - Have you booked your ticket on the Inktomi Express

things are going to change big style in the search space

[caine]

With all the junk that Google has pulled, whether your up or down in the SERPs, one thing's for sure is the quality of the SERPs in the last series of updates (which are still fuzzying around at the mo) have probably knocked google from the hearts and minds of many a webmaster, but once the searchers sense the downgrade of the quality of SERPs, blood will be smelt.

This in mind - i've started stacking up on Inktomi PFI, working on the theory that Y! is going to drop G! like a bag of spuds and roll with Ink! With MSN as well, oh boy!

What you going to do come 2004? Stick with opto-ing for G or play G as second fiddle to Ink?

[SlyGuy]

I am finding alta vista's results to be far superior to ink's

..and Google's, currently.

I spent some time at Alta Vista today, noticed that their results are very good..actually damn good.

[Powdork]

Yes, I've been noticing this (and saying it) for weeks now. Google still holds a much larger index and for many esoteric searches they still reign. But for the average guy trying to find stuff, Google has just lost touch.

[Napoleon]

>> I spent some time at Alta Vista today, noticed that their results are very good..actually damn good <<

I think over the last year to two, AV, Ink, ATW and actually others as well, have all raised their game. This has gone largely unnoticed though, due to the general fixation with Google.

Now that Google has slipped, an awful lot of people are being pleasently surprised by the quality of the other engines.

I think the one positive to come out of this mess is that we will see the monopoly finally broken. In the long term that will of course suit everyone.

Just a point for Caine:

>> i've started stacking up on Inktomi PFI, working on the theory that Y! is going to drop G! like a bag of spuds <<

I agree with the spud dropping, but don't you think the directory might be a better option? I personally can see that replacing the standard PFI, or at least becoming some sort of delux version.

[airpal]

Marcia, you make a good point in that with accordance to the FCC's guidelines Yahoo must somewhat differentiate between free and paid listings (which as you've noticed it already does with Overture), however they can do it in the same style MSN does where nobody can really tell a difference between the sponsored and free listings!

Markus00, rest assured my contact's job status is safe :) All it takes is slipping in subtle questions in a long flowing conversation, and you can get some incredible information.

I'm very happy about the listings change for Yahoo as its modified google results are quite messy and almost exclusively feature index pages for most searches. This opens up the competition and we REALLY, REALLY, need to have more viable sources of traffic then the "big G". If only heavyweight contender MSNBot enters the ring, we'd all be seeing some serious revenue increases from a wide array of keyword phrases.

[howiejs]

Interesting note about Altavista - I have not looked at them in 18 months - and today I just saw all of my key pages in top ranks . . .

But - I NEVER see any traffic from Altavista in my logs

What categories are people seeing decent refers from Altavista?

[creative craig]

I have been using Ink for the last 3 months and have seen some very good serps in the market area that I have been targeting, not to spammy and relevant. On the other hand the Google serps over the last three months have been slowly getting worse, with in an influx of spam, in a couple of different areas. The next three months should be very interesting IMO.

Craig

[caine]

I've been Creaming ROI from Ink and its partners for the last 2 and half years. I've always believed that via MSN, my site's make more money (direct-indirect) from Ink inclusion than google!

[SlyGuy]

I think the one positive to come out of this mess is that we will see the monopoly finally broken. In the long term that will of course suit everyone.

Couldn't agree more, Nap.

Through the recent highs and lows of Google, ATW & INK have consistantly performed well.

AV certainly surprised me, they've been off my radar for awhile now. It would be great to see them claw their way back into the public eye (for those who remember just how powerful AV was..)

Variety is the spice of life, take the energy used to decipher what's going on at Google and visit some other SEs..you may be surprised.

[Powdork]

How did the general public find out about alta vista's shift in '99? Was there mainstream press, and how did they hear of Google?

[markis00]

"Markus00, rest assured my contact's job status is safe :) All it takes is slipping in subtle questions in a long flowing conversation, and you can get some incredible information. "

hehe. sounds good. I am glad that Y! is dropping Google results. I like the idea of G no longer having a SE monopoly...

[jbgilbert]

Wouldn't it be a GOOD time for Yahoo to tell everybody the following things in a public announcement right about now:

-- which of their search engines they will be focusing on going forward?

-- how to submit to that search engine?

Would not Google freak if Yahoo actually decided to be very open about their intentions?

[rise2it]

Powdork had 2 great questions above.

Google grew for 2 reasons:
(1) Word of Mouth
(2) They bacame the 'darling' of the press. As all of the other engines had homepages that became so cluttered that you could no longer find the 'search box', Google's nice clean page appealed to people.

As for the fall of Altavista in 1999, I really don't remember. Anyone else?

[yowza]

I agree that AltaVista is producing great results. They also have the most active robot.

I created a 1,500 page website about three months ago. As of now, Google has indexed 90 pages, Inktomi 60, and Alta Vista 1,200.

Unfortunately, nobody uses AltaVista right now - at least no shoppers coming to my site.

[shasan]

Altavista does produce great results. Too bad my pages don't rank in AV as well as in G. Plus I have less pages indexed in AV. Scooter doesn't seem spend near enough time on my site I guess.

[figment88]

I like AV too. Why wouldn't we? It seems AV did a good job reverse-engineering Google of about a year ago which is what we all optimized for.

AV seems to give more importance to PR than Google now.

In comparison with old Google, current AV comes closer than new Google.

[percentages]

>Have you booked your ticket on the Inktomi Express

I've been riding on the Inktomi Express for several years. It is a plush, comfortable ride that hits minimal bumps and doesn't require significant levels of maintenance.

>"Napoleon said" due to the general fixation with Google.

Well Said - WW is frequented by many who think Google is the be-all-and-end-all. Those that rank well in Inktomi should have seen 20 to 25% of their SE referrals from it already this year (mainly via MSN) even if they ranked equally well at Yahoogle. (Numbers for non technical sites, i.e. products "Joe Average" purchases).

Once MSN ditches Looksmart the Inktomi referrals should increase significantly (I'm guessing between 8% to 10%.....possibly much more as L$ results constantly change due to L$ "free" clicks). Hopefully MSN will not litter the results with other forms of crapola.

Once Yahoo ditches Google I expect Inktomi to represent over 50% of all SE referrals. If they select AV it won't make much difference as the SERPs are very similar in most cases, rank good on INK and you should automatically rank good on AV....and almost all others for that matter (Google not included for some keyphrases now).

Bottom line Google has peaked, Inktomi/AV were almost dead, but Yahoo will resurrect one of them to come back as a championship contender.

I would like to see M$ make a significant contribution with whatever it has planned, it is too early to say yet, but they have the capability and bankroll ;)

[woop01]

So how wrong am I to think that the best way to optimize for Ink is to create what we would normally call spamed out pages?

[percentages]

>best way to optimize for Ink

woop01, to optimize for INK do what you would have done for Google in Jan to Sept 2002....it will work a treat.

"Spammed Out" is a contentious term.....IMHO, it is best left to the whiners, if you want the money take it, and settle for the fact that you won't care much about those throwing stones at you ;)

There are the "righteous" and the "rich".....it is hard to be both at the same time....decide which is more important to you and sleep well at night :)

[snookie]

well AV is much better these days, however that maybe due to the fact that they haven't indexed so much spam as google. The thing is AV is remembered as once being great. Thats a hard hurdle to overcome. AV needs some news toys, a "killer app". It used to have the only image search, translation. Every SE these days is building a toolbar - but these are just replica's of google's. Now google has a deskbar search I expect everyone will copy that... We don't need clones though, We need something new!

I don't don't use any of the SE's toolbars these days, I built my own and added all the engines, dictionary's and encyclopedias that I need, along with all link/site checking tools I need.

snookie

P.S. If anyone/Company needs a custom toolbar... ;)

[woop01]

There are the "righteous" and the "rich".....it is hard to be both at the same time....decide which is more important to you and sleep well at night :)

I'll take that as a yes. ;)

[dvduval]

I won't be jumping on any wagons!

If I have to pay Inktomi to spider my pages, yet Google is spidering daily (for free), just how good could the Inktomi spider be?

[mfishy]

<<If I have to pay Inktomi to spider my pages, yet Google is spidering daily (for free), just how good could the Inktomi spider be? >>

You don't have to pay INK to spider your pages. We have thousands of pages in INK and have not paid a dime for them.

[dvduval]

Yes, but you have to pay to have them spidered more often. Therefore, by nature, Google results are fresher, because Google spiders for often at no charge.

[Kirby]

<<If I have to pay Inktomi to spider my pages, yet Google is spidering daily (for free), just how good could the Inktomi spider be? >>
You don't have to pay INK to spider your pages. We have thousands of pages in INK and have not paid a dime for them.

Ink spiders my pages constanly, but I have a very inconsistent presence in the index. One week I do well, the next week I'm not there at all. Will paying up solve this problem?

[dvduval]

Ink spiders my pages constanly, but I have a very inconsistent presence in the index. One week I do well, the next week I'm not there at all. Will paying up solve this problem?

Yes, but how many pages are we talking about? If it is important that a handful of pages are refreshed daily, then go ahead and pay. But if you are talking about many pages, then you should think about the economics of the decision.

[benc007]

"You don't have to pay INK to spider your pages. We have thousands of pages in INK and have not paid a dime for them."

How can you get into INK for free?

I know paying will mean the specific page(s) get spidered more frequently. But I believe this is only true for paid pages. INK does not spider the links from the paid page .. is this true?

[nakulgoyal]

I see almost all of my websites in there in INK as well. What better do they do if you pay?

[percentages]

>How can you get into INK for free?

Links from pages already in the INK index will get yours spidered and indexed (for free). There is a submission page, [submitit.bcentral.com...] , no guarantees as always, but it doesn't seem to do any harm.

I can't say if submitting does any good as I have never tried to get a "linkless" website indexed using that method.

I have never paid for inclusion and see no reason to start now. A few here at WW actually have negative stories to tell about PFI with INK. I would keep to the free methods just incase. :)

[Kirby]

>Yes, but how many pages are we talking about? If it is important that a handful of pages are refreshed daily, then go ahead and pay. But if you are talking about many pages, then you should think about the economics of the decision.

Its a small site and I only care if the index page is spidered, which it already is, so cost is irrelevant. The issue is the on again, off again presence in the results. During DOM and ESM, I got huge amount of traffic for a 3 week period each time from MSN, then I disappeared completely for months even though INK continues to spider me daily. Now I'm back in the index, but nowhere in the results. Does paid inclusion impact the serps?

[Kirby]

>Links from pages already in the INK index will get yours spidered and indexed (for free).

Interesting post, percentages. I have a one page duplicate content site (changed 'city-keyword' to city2-keyword) that I used to test the importance of anchor text with Google. It does better in INK for "city-keyword" than the original site. The only link to is from my original site. Go figure.