Alta Goes PPC With Goto!

[Brett_Tabke]

It is official - Goto.com to provide top altavista search listings [biz.yahoo.com].

[bluesriff]

I may have missed it, however I don't believe the article said when this was going to start for sure.

[seth_wilde]

Yeah, other than the fact that they signed a deal, they don't really give you any info. When does it start? How many goto lisings will they show? Where will the listings be placed?

[redzone]

Here's the "poop".. Relationship starts 11/20/00

In another huge milestone event, GoTo has just added AltaVista to its list of affiliate partners! GoTo has recently signed an agreement with AltaVista to become the exclusive Pay-For-Performance search provider on AltaVista, one of the first and most widely-used search sites. The addition of AltaVista to GoTo's already rapidly-growing affiliate network brings GoTo one step closer to becoming the largest, single source of Web traffic!
This exciting new agreement is expected to bring millions of new searches a day to our advertisers, and will be implemented in two phases:

Preview:
Effective immediately, GoTo's top 5 search listings will appear in a section labeled "Sponsored Listings" on selected AltaVista search results pages. Users can access additional GoTo results by clicking on the "More" link at the end of Sponsored Listings.

Launch:
Starting November 20th, GoTo listings will ALSO appear on AltaVista's standard search results pages at www.altavista.com, exposing them to a significant portion of AltaVista's 50 million searches a day! GoTo's top 3 listings will appear in a section labeled "Sponsored Listings." By selecting the "More" link at the end of Sponsored Listings, users will be presented with a full page of GoTo results.

Listings included in the Preview and Launch implementations will have complete titles and descriptions.

We're delighted to add AltaVista, one of the world's fastest, most comprehensive search sites, to our list of partners. AltaVista offers a leading search service and information marketplace to millions of users. This partnership with AltaVista significantly expands GoTo's affiliate network, which already includes partners such as America Online, Lycos, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Netscape, CompuServe, EarthLink and CNET.

IMPORTANT: Due to restrictions in our agreement with AltaVista, certain listings will not be included in "Sponsored Listings" results on AltaVista. Find out more about these restrictions.

Due to restrictions in our agreement with AltaVista, certain listings will not be included in "Sponsored Listings" results on AltaVista. Listings that will not appear include some terms or advertisers related to adult content, travel, real estate, domain names, credit cards and other search terms covered by exclusive agreements that AltaVista has with their business partners.

[Brett_Tabke]

RZ, where did you find that at? I've looked in Alta's press box...everywhere. I thought I was on their press release list...

[redzone]

Brett,
It was in Goto's site, after you log in.... :)

[cyberbear]

I am considering goto with the really cheap 1 cent referrals. I find most of the keywords I want do not have any bids on them. This is the way I see getting the most value for my money and you guys please let me know if I am correct. Lets say you are promoting international merchant accounts and the top position is $1.50. With the $99 express you would get $50 worth of referrals and that works out to 33 hits. If you target terms like "international merchant account china" or "international merchant account mexico" you can have top positions for 1 cent each and you will get 5000 referrals. It is my opinion that the 1 cent referrals will bring me more sales not just because of the greater number of hits but that people who use my terms will more likely to be appropriate referral. All opinions are greatly appreciated as I am on a budget for this one . It also seems to me that companies who pay $3 for referrals are going to get screwed by competitors clicking through just to run up your bill and at $3 a hit that can add up. Anyone had any problems with this? Thanks. Also, I assume you only pay for click throughs and will the 1 cent listing be elilgible for Alta Vista's Goto listings?

[tedster]

I have a client who plays the GoTo game -- trying to keep position 3, which currently costs them 37 cents, and yes, last month we had a bad run of someone clicking away. This is not a big business, and the extra $120 really hurt.

Whether a 1 cent bid makes it to a partner site depends on the playing field -- angling in on the highly targetted 1 cent phrases is a great way to go, IMO. Keeps out the window shoppers.

AV says they will show top 5, with a "more like this" tab that shows a full page of GoTo results when clicked.

It remains to be seen how many people will actually WANT to see a full page of sponsored links -- but there's the opportunity for getting AV eyeballs with a 1 cent bid. Even on a relatively competitive kw, all you need to do is stay on the page.

I haven't spoken with anyone who is using the $99 express -- $50 worth of clicks and $49 for GoTo to manage your kws and descriptions. Since you say you're on a budget anyway, why not do it yourself and get $99 worth of clicks for $99? After all, you have GOT to know your own business better than a stranger at GoTo does.

[jk321]

Tedster,

<<...last month we had a bad run of someone clicking away. This is not a big business, and the extra $120 really hurt. >>

Just curious -- did you attempt to do anything about it with GoTo?

I have a feeling I'll be in that same position soon.

Thanks,
JK321

[seth_wilde]

I've had goto refund money twice for competitors repeated clicking without having to say anything to them...

[cyberbear]

Tedster

I thought it was mandatory to pay the $49 dollars to goto and that was subtracted from the $99 fee. You better believe I know my business better than these guys and I am ready to rock and roll.

It is a shame that some people dont have anything better to do than runup peoples bills by clicking through repeatedly. The words I target will not be super competitive but when someone types in the phrase there will be no doubt that he wants what I got.The good thing about a 1 cent bid is even if some prick is clicking on your site it will take quite a while for him to burn $50. Lets see at about 5 seconds a click x 5000 =15000 seconds divided by 60= 4 hours and 10 minutes.No one is that much of a prick. Same scenario at $3.50 a click is one minute, got to hurt.

[tedster]

>>I thought it was mandatory to pay the $49 dollars to goto and that was subtracted from the $99 fee.

Yeah, I noticed the way they did the layout and copy might lead to that conclusion. All it takes it $25 -- and it's all for clicks, but you do the maintenance.

[cyberbear]

Tedster

What type of maintenance is there?

[jk321]

<<It is a shame that some people dont have anything better to do than runup peoples bills by clicking through repeatedly.>>

My site, as well as my competitor's sites all pertain to a relatively small geographic area -- and most live in this area. I hope none of them stoops to this sort of behavior.

jk "I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE, CHUMP" 321

[mayor]

I used to use GoTo and go for a couple hundred penny keywords. The traffic I got was dismal, only ten or twenty hits a day from all that effort of chasing down the keywords and submitting bids on them and getting a lot of them rejected from their anti-customer reviewers. $25 would last for months.

[bluesriff]

cyberbear,
Not a lot of maintenance. Just choose your keywords, put bids on them according to where you want them to rank and then keep an eye on them. I figure the top 3 is great, as it will cover AOL. Top 2 if you want Netscape. Dogpile is top 10. (Surprising how many folks use Dogpile)

[cyberbear]

Hi Mayor

Maybe things will change now for the penny keywords as Goto extents it reach to all the major search engines.It should increase the number of visitors.

[tedster]

>>What type of maintenance is there?

Not a lot -- but depending on how volatile the bidding is on some of your keywords, it's worth a regular eyeball.

For instance, getting on AOL is pretty important right now. So, say you bid .37 to get the number three spot and get the AOL listing. The minute someone else's bid knocks you to fourth place, you're paying .37 for fourth place, no AOL, and you probably could have that position for a lot less.

I also watch for bids that get no clicks -- then I jigger with the descriptions until I do get some clicks.

This is a copywriter's dream. Where else can I get nearly immediate, measured feedback on the effectiveness of different versions of my copy? I feel like GoTo has increased my writing ability in marketing many times over since I started dealing with them.

BTW, it's now the 21st and AV has yet to add the GoTo results. I'm waiting with great anticipation on this move.

[bigjohnt]

Good point about copywriting Tedster. Nearly instant feedback on whether a headline <title> pulls.

We have a formula that "predicts" monthly costs, and numbers of visitors <GoTo> is one of the first things we do for a client while waiting for SEO results>.
Using even this formula (which BTW has been VERY accurate over many domains, products, etc) slight modifications to the description can produce rather dramatic results. Standard marketing and advertising procedures and methods still work on the web. A good SEO/copywriter combo is a hot property when combined with PPC.

[tedster]

>>A good SEO/copywriter combo is a hot property when combined with PPC.

Yes, maybe my ship is coming in. So far, our company hasn't been able to make a complete shift to web-only, but we'd like to. I still write technical marketing copy as well as doing online work -- but that's OK, I guess, because it keeps me in touch with changes in technology.

Do you, or anyone else, have some pointers for writing good titles and descriptions? We're all learning the ropes of PPC, and would value any insight. You could add them to this thread [webmasterworld.com].

[rencke]

Attention all Europeans! Don't panic! This does not concern you - yet.
Talked to Altavista Nordic this afternoon. "There are no plans for the Goto deal for Europe at this time." "But there may be a test in the UK".

[jilla]

I see the page where the goto listings are,
but how do you get there from usual page in altavista?

[tools.altavista.com...]

Also, there are restrictions on terms in altavista from the goto alliance:

Due to restrictions in our agreement
with AltaVista, certain listings will
not be included in "Sponsored Listings" results on AltaVista. Listings that will not
appear include some terms or advertisers related to adult content, travel, real
estate, domain names, credit cards and other
search terms covered by exclusive
agreements that AltaVista has with their business partners.

Debbie

[han solo]

So does this last post mean that, for these covered terms, they already sold out to other deals, which are still hiding in the closet?

Anyone want to email AV and ask them about this? I don't have any contacts there, but this is huge. There should be all sorts of news about this, if it means what I think it does.

<Press Release>
"For immediate release. AV now not only peddles porn, but they take money under the table for all keyword searches not currently covered by their latest deal with goto. Brides are encouraged, and to be effective, need help propel the company to an IPO, because of the lagging stock of the parent company, CMGI..."

What is going on? Either way, I make money, but I feel sorry for joe surfer who used to like AV. Although maybe now, the results will be more comprehensible...:)

[cyberbear]

Does anyone know where the Goto results are on AV? I can find them on all the other sites but nowhere to be found on AV. Thanks.

[tedster]

Alta has not yet posted any GoTo results as far as I can see either. They announced that last Monday was to be the start date, but...

[minnapple]

I have seen altavista/goto visits in my logs since November 21st.

This is how they show up.

[listings.altavista.com...]

[Stricko]

I have seen some sponsored results appear but they are not consistent from day to day.

Does anyone know how long Altavista has signed the deal with GOTO for?

[Stricko]

I have seen some sponsored results appear but they are not consistent from day to day.

Does anyone know how long Altavista has signed the deal with GOTO for?

[seth_wilde]

So far alta doesn't seem to be showing any goto results, I think the listings.altavista.com goto results is just a test page

"Does anyone know how long Altavista has signed the deal with GOTO for?"

18 Months

[Stricko]

Thanks for that info......