China Blocks Altavista

Following in the footsteps of Google Ban....

[nutsandbolts]

After Google [webmasterworld.com], Altavista is the next search engine banned by China reports the BBC [news.bbc.co.uk]. Scary.

[Nick_W]

No great loss there then ;) Except of course because or the google ban...

Nick

[Marcia]

Of course, the usage over there may be different than it is here. Have there been any close to accurate comparative figures released for search engine usage in China?

[bill]

If Woz's post about search engines in China [webmasterworld.com] is still valid, BaiDu is the only search engine in China. Everything else is a directory that uses BaiDu or Google results. I don't think AltaVista enters into the equation that much. I don't recall any traffic from AV on my Chinese sites.

[heini]

I suppose it's more about shutting down sites which lead to content from outside China.

Are there any major international SEs with chinese language interfaces apart from Google? Does AV have a chinese interface?

[bill]

Does AV have a chinese interface?

To the best of my knowledge, AV does not have a Chinese interface. I know that AV does have some 3rd party sites that have Japanese interfaces, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility that there is a Chinese one out there somewhere.

I guess next we'll see AllTheWeb getting banned over there as well. They have a similar capability of searching Chinese language sites but admittedly without the Chinese interface.

[shanz]

I wonder what the finacial remifications of this will be.

Like all good communist regimes the Chinese government will not be afraid to make a profit from this.

Perhaps some sort of state run pay for inclusion search engine for the masses. Chinoogle maybe? Choogle...

Anyway, Yahoo has already bent over backwards for the Chinese government. Could the price of being seen in china be a slice of the profits to the state? Will corporate America stomach this?

Or will this all blow over after the elections?

Shanz

[Eric_Jarvis]

surely Sohu uses a different database to Baidu?

[jdMorgan]

I wonder if there is any way a group (like us) could set up some "redirectors" to allow the Chinese to reach these sites. Something like a rotating pool of IP addresses that would "forward" to AV/Google/etc. - or maybe even use features like the new Google API to handle queries as a proxy for the user. Set up a bunch and change the DNS weekly/daily - whatever it takes to stay ahead.

I'd like to show the "Party leaders" that the internet, like Radio Free Europe, can't be stopped.

"Liberty and Justice for all" Hoo-rah!

Just thinking out loud here... Any ideas?

Jim

[seth_wilde]

"I'd like to show the "Party leaders" that the internet, like Radio Free Europe, can't be stopped"

There's already something being developed. It's called Peekabooty [peek-a-booty.org], and is being developed by an ex-member of a famous hacking group (cdc).

[Marcia]

Like all businesses, governments need funding and have to have their particular equivalent of a business model. Any arrangements between them and search engines probably will and should stay out of the public eye as much as possible.

Alliances between business and governments is nothing new, search engines do have an economic impact and bring revenue in any economy, and any model would have to depend on the particular political-socio-economic structure of the country in question.

There's a big diversity of stances in that regard, which is why it's generally better if discussion at boards that serve a broad spectrum steer clear of discussions that touch on political issues, particularly in sensitive areas. It sure helps keep peace here that we avoid them.

>finacial remifications

Are there any figures or estimates on what percentage of Chinese consumers have internet access, or did I miss it?

[heini]

>internet access
I believe estmates go for some 50 Mill. people. Which of course is a rather small percentage of the population.

[Marcia]

>small percentage of the population.

It may be a small percentage of the population, but it could represent capability of making purchases online. I don't believe they have the same holidays we do, but thinking in terms of preparing sites for holiday business in the Western World now, to cite an example, they do celebrate New Years some time in January, and from being a cookbook collector, I know there are celebrations and banquets for special occasions.

Here in the US I think the figure is 58% of purchases online made by women, I'm trying to translate that into the perspective of a woman who could be shopping online for new cookware or dinnerware, condiments easily purchased online like dried noodles or mushrooms, home decor to spruce up the house for guests, and even new outfits for the kids.

I'm trying to imagine what role search engines play there when people shop and how they use them; whether to surf like we do, or look for the local merchant in a regional directory.

[toadhall]

I'm not sure as the Chinese know themselves as "consumers" just yet, and I believe search engine as revenue generator is an issue pretty low on the Chinese government's agenda. I'm afraid it is a political, ideological issue. Online commerce is not the same as it is in the USA even here in Canada, and the social model in China is a great deal more different than that.

[heini]

Entertainment, information, communication: those are the needs fulfilled by the internet in China, I'd expect.
Most likely those people using the web constitute in a way an informational elite, very similar to the situation in Europe only some 3 years or so ago.

E-mail, search engines, and gaming were the traditinal drivers of the internet success as mass phenomenon throughout the world. The commercial web I see coming only following to those initial needs.

[toadhall]

It's my understanding that Altavista had been banned for quite some time before Google. There's no entry for China in the Altavista Worldwide listing. Could it have something to do the babelfish translator perhaps? It appears on the Harvard sh*t list less than the www altavista server, but it could be the thorn that started Altavista's blanket ban.

Is the babelfish translator a popular tool for some in China?

[jdMorgan]

toadhall,

I was just about to post the same thing... It's the translators I'll bet.

Jim

[bathrobe]

"Informational elite"... depends how you look at it. The Internet is big time in China's cities. I think the relevant distinction is between the mass of people in the countryside who don't have computers and the people in the towns and cities who either have computers or have access to them through their job or school, or the ubiquitous Internet cafes.

What do Chinese people do online? My impressions are that they chat, send messages (ICQ), post to message boards, play games, look at pornographic content, look for news that isn't available through the state press...

The communication function is huge. E-mail, instant messaging, message boards... Recently a 16 year old from a high school out in the sticks taught me how to register for a service whereby your on-line friends can send you messages on your mobile phone. This is not an "informational elite"!

As for the e-commerce function... That's still not very big yet (although it exists). It's being held back by logistic problems (very low credit card usage, poor transport, etc.)

I posted elsewhere that Google is still not very big in China, which has been contradicted by other reports. Google may be big in some circles, but for the greater mass of Internet users Google is largely unknown. Most Chinese log on to their favourite infotainment portals which offer information, on-line communities, e-mail, news, etc., etc.

Incidentally, I'm not an expert on the cutting edge of China's Internet. These are my impressions from watching the young people around me.