Forum Moderators: open
"Don't get caught in THIS trap.
Submitting through the "free" services found at HotBot, Canada.com, and other engines that use the Inktomi database will get your pages automatically penalized until such time the Inktomi robot "rediscovers" them. To avoid the penalty, and to guarantee your content stays in the index and updates every 48 hours, use the paid submission service at
Positiontech.com -- Inktomi's submission channel partner."
We already know that Positiontech is very efficient and that this is a good way to get into the Inktomi database. However, I refuse to believe this is the only way to get pages to stick in the database. So I wanted to find out whether anyone's gotten positive results using other "submission" venues, such as links pages and submitting directory pages.
What is more effective?
1. Links pages (add a links page to a page in the permanent database so that other sites get spidered)
2. Submitting Directory listings or other places where a site is listed
3. Link programs such as links to you.
Any other ideas?
TIA,
2M
P.S. PT is great but what about people that have many many sites/pages that need to be indexed.
I was updated into their database a couple of months later, and they've been the best of all the spider dirven sites as far as regular visits and updating my pages.
My last major site update (getting rid of my frames layout) was posted to the Inktomi DB in less than a week. I'm still waiting on Google's update, AltaVista is only about halfway through changing my listings over, and FAST finally began posting the new pages this week.
Ink may take their time with initial submissions, but they've been good to me since then.
From Danny's subscription newletter:Ink Plans On Ending Free Submission
Webmaster World, Nov. 12, 2000
[webmasterworld.com...]Thread from Webmaster World forums where news of the Add URL penalty emerged.
Kudos to Danny for giving credit, btw. We've had a recent unpleasant incident where another online author for a well-know e-mag lifted a thread and published it as his own.
It's not a major issue because the traffic coming from the Ink-based partners has been relatively poor on other sites well placed in the index. If anything, the fragmentation between results from this source, that source and another source in a portal is proving to be a bad thing. This is where Google and Yahoo are scoring - there aren't several sources all vying for position.
Since Ink's change in policy last year, I've spend less time trying to get in the Ink DB and spent more time ensuring all the other SE/Directories are well fed with good, up-to-date information.
IMHO Ink has de-valued it DB with fewer new sites listed, and the partners that are taking filters from Goto are only reducing its effectiveness as a search tool.
I too have a question for you. When you say "links" are you speaking about:
1) Hallway pages
2) invisible pixels
3) text links
Thanks. Also , how many do you suggest in the crosslinking as a minimum. Finally,
what is the criterion for the permanent database (or is that only now for paid submissions)?
Debbie
Instead, I just place a link to the new site on a few currently well listed Inktomi sites.
Slurp comes, and the new site is listed in a Inktomi cycle.
If Inktomi comes on its own I would think it would be safe, after all you are not making any request to Inktomi to do so.
Safe sexspidering perhaps?
Minnapple
I have a large government site which is THE definitive site for its type, and did not pay Inktomi for its inclusion, believing that the very fact that they are who they are would carry them.
Most of my other clients, I have paid for.
I have noticed that, while the government site SHOULD have the advantage, it definitely does not. The paid submissions are doing much better, were added more quickly, and the fact that they're spidered every 48 hours or so increases my chances of the downline SEs and directories actually getting a current copy of what we have up.
Further, the fact that the paid submissions have an advantage -- however small -- convinced me.
That advantage is worth the very small amount of money that we pay for Inktomi subscription, and I think it would be a mistake not to have paid.
Of course, that's just me...and granted, I use absolutely [bold]every[/bold] ethical advantage I can get to get my clients high listings.
I still have the question if on the page that the spider finds (that is in database for a year ) can the links be invisible pixel links or should they be text links that are readable to the eye?
Also, what happens if you put on links from a domain that you are paying for in positiontech for pages on that domain that hadn't been paid for? Will they get picked up?
Just curious.
Debbie
Submitting other links pages is rather a dicey topic at the moment. If ink is knocking down free submits, it has some unethical implications. I don't think you need to submit ODP or Yahoo listings, as INK will find them eventually.
Thanks to Danny Sullivan [searchenginewatch.com] for the reference to WebmasterWorld in his subscribers newsletter.
to add just a touch - if you have pages on other sites (that belong to you) that are getting spidered by INK, add a few links back to several (or all) the pages in question. We are having some luck with pages being found and then ranking very well ( repeat "some" luck - about 50 so far)
We use lots of empty comtainers for the job:
<A HREF="http://www.mysite.com/apples/index.html"></A>
Also - I've linked to new sites from my sites that get regularly spidered, but just to the index page of the new ones. Would it be better to link to more than that?
A. submitted thru PT (not in main database)
B. submitted thru PT (in main database)
C. submitted thru ADD URL
D. submitted thru ADD URL and PT
Sites that belong to B are ranking highest (regardless of optimization elements)...Sites from A are also doing well...then B...then D...and finally C...
This remained constant through different keywords, both competitive and noncompetitive...
All of the pages have most of the same optimization techniques (the basics...although each site is unique)...It seems to be TOO much of a coincidence that the sites doing best are the ones submitted through PT...but it's good to know that it is not NECESSARY, especially for noncompetitive keywords...for competitive keywords, submitting through PT maybe a necessary boost for gaining good rankings. Once again, thanks everyone for your feedback!
2Much
note: the sample size was relatively small so the results are not truly significant...but I consider them reliable enough to arrive at some conclusions.
<added> Ohoh...just came across another thread on the same topic: [webmasterworld.com...]
Consensus there seems to be that "B" is either detrimental or at least not necessary. My observations didn't support this...so either we are an exception to this, or my "sample" is too small and unreliable. </added>
Just repeating to understand how it works:
if I have some pages in the ink-main-db (since more than a year), I only have to insert some links to pages I want to see also appearing in the main-db.
Does it work?
And - this has nothing to do with the paid-submission, because slurp will find all pages on its own crawling the links.
Empty containers are just links with no graphic or test in them. We use to use 1X1.gifs but about a year ago we found that INK's spiders follow empty containers just as well. Sorry to be so long in answering your post...
oLean
We have had about 30 pages picked up by INK with what you are talking about - but that's off a site that has over 3,000 pages.
BTW, those pages are slightly different from the concept of the other pages, so we are researching them now to see if there is a reason why INK picked them up. The links may have made it possible for them to be found, but it's not the whole story.
You need to put links to pages you want spidered on pages that are already listed in the main database. They need not be visible? Does this include pages off other domains or just for this particular domain that is already listed trying to get new pages in?
Okay so you get listed... now what do you do to get listed decently - I'm talking at least the top 3 pages. It seems that content and relevancy are doing us no good.
TIA
Jill
That's the big question... most people seem to be finding that their paid submissions are ranking better than the unpaid ones. I got a number of free submit pages into the main database, just as Ink was starting their pay program, and they were doing great until the last DB update. Now they're buried. I'm still trying to figure out what went wrong.
Sorry for the newbie questions...but its p*ssing me off.
Edited by: NFFC
But how often Inktomi updates their database is one thing, and how often their partner sites (MSN, etc.) update their copy of Inktomi's data is a different thing entirely. I don't know the specific update schedules of Inktomi's partner sites, but it definitely isn't every 48 hours.
Has anyone noticed a price increase on submitting through PT?
I submitted two URL's today and was charged $30
The Ink site still states '2-100 @£10'
It is $20 for the first page and then $10 between 2-100, so they have charged you the right price.
I'll use a calculator (and read the text) next time!
No wonder I'm not making any money - I can't count!
Thanks again
I'm just about to recommend the inktomi pay to play thing for a lot of sites...
But, one highly ranking site I have which is currently #1 on what I like to think are competitive keywords in AV, Google, Goto, Hotbot, Iwon -
..has been visited by the inktomi spider 17 different times in the last week and I have never paid for anything. (There are 7 pages on the site.)
I don't have particularly good inbound links, but a few quality outgoing ones. This has happened in around a year.
I haven't been doing anything fancy - have submitted to Canada.com.
HTH.
They are in part the INK product. If the KWs are competitive, the #1 position on GOTO would be because you are paying (ppc) for it.
I do not recommend that you pay for any pages to be included in the INK databse that are already ranking in INK. The PTP should always be a separate solution
-s-
Inktomi likes to find things on their own. Once the new site is in Ink, you can remove the affiliation.
-G
