Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 23.22.231.22

Forum Moderators: bill

Message Too Old, No Replies

MS releases own tablet "Surface" for Win 8

Microsoft takes the apple route..hardware and software.

     
12:00 am on Jun 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6717
votes: 230


Microsoft unveils Surface Windows 8 tablets, hardware for their win8 software..

[bbc.com...]

Challenging Apple and Google and others ..
1:55 am on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Administrator from JP 

WebmasterWorld Administrator bill is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month Best Post Of The Month

joined:Oct 12, 2000
posts:14480
votes: 49


Here is the official MS press release about Surface.

Microsoft Announces Surface: New Family of PCs for Windows [microsoft.com]

Today at an event in Hollywood, Microsoft unveiled Surface: PCs built to be the ultimate stage for Windows. Company executives showed two Windows tablets and accessories that feature significant advances in industrial design and attention to detail.


Despite all the hype that went into the announcement I'm not sure what to think about this yet. I guess we'll have to wait for pricing details to see what sort of uptake this unit will have...

It does look to only be available in the US market first. No word on other markets.
2:05 am on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 23, 2004
posts:435
votes: 0


I like the keyboard being built into the cover. That's cool.
2:34 am on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 14, 2005
posts:475
votes: 0


The "live feed" I followed made it look like a well-thought-out design. I'm very eager to see it in user hands, and what it'll mean for website design...if anything.
2:37 am on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6717
votes: 230


I like the keyboard being built into the cover. That's cool.
It will be available in a selection of vibrant colors

Hopefully that will include black, and also white..
10:13 am on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6717
votes: 230


Some early "tech press reaction" gathered together on the BBC..
[bbc.com...]

A major point I'd agree with is..MS have made a mistake announcing and showing something which is not available the same day..and has an unknown price..

From the picture on the BBC article at least they have made the keyboard in some non "fisher price" colours ..
10:33 am on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 27, 2005
posts: 88
votes: 0


Apple make it all so straightforward - their products look great, they tell us the specs and price and if we want one we can have it next week or so. To me this looks really confusing. Is it a laptop? It looks like one. The wacky colours could date it quickly too. There are plenty of unremarkable but perfectly usable droid tablets available now and they are pretty cheap. This thing reminds me of Zune, and I suspect its trajectory in the market place will be similar.
11:17 am on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 16, 2004
posts:1341
votes: 0


"...The kickstand is there when needed, and disappears when not in use, with no extra weight or thickness."


I don't think that's physically or mathematically possible.
1:01 pm on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:May 6, 2005
posts:670
votes: 0


I don't think that's physically or mathematically possible.

The key word is, no *extra* weight or thickness.

I think we can agree that if the kickstand bulged out, or was an extra piece hanging off the back cover, that would be *extra* weight and thickness. But there's no bulge, and nothing extra is attached to the case. Smart design utilizing the lower half of the back cover.
2:06 pm on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator travelin_cat is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 28, 2004
posts:3115
votes: 2


Once again MS proves that they don't have a single interface designer on their staff. Like Leosghost said, it looks like it was designed by Fisher Price.

That's the best user interface MS could come up with? An overly large orange rectangle has a white headset icon, a green square has a white shopping bag, a purple square has a white talk bubble. That's your best shot?
2:55 pm on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

5+ Year Member

joined:Jan 6, 2011
posts:466
votes: 0


Interesting to me is that it seems like the first tablet with a full desktop-level OS - unless I'm misunderstanding it.
3:43 pm on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Mar 30, 2006
posts:1378
votes: 51


I'm a bit sckeptical but yes, it looks good!. I've been reading publications regarding tablets having a problem... they are mostly tools to consume content, not to create content... this means you have a tablet but also a notebook or desktop computer... The Surface has a full operating system that can be used as the old windows and also as a tablet touch OS. This could be very very interesting...

There could be many scenarios where you no longer need to take your notebook AND tablet with you, but only your Surface... Who knows.
4:40 pm on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Administrator from GB 

WebmasterWorld Administrator engine is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month Best Post Of The Month

joined:May 9, 2000
posts:22305
votes: 239


I like the look of the device. The kb is an addition/option, for those that prefer a kb. I know some that do. The colours are funky, for the launch impact.

The fact that it's Windows may mean it'll operate MS software tools, and that could be very good for corporate customers.

Microsoft's annoying introductions in advance of shipments can hurt it, imho. As was said, you see the new Mac at a launch and it's shipping a few weeks later. Not the same with the Microsoft Surface.
5:07 pm on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Administrator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Jan 25, 2005
posts:14624
votes: 88


This is a total game changer.

Now that the tablet can be the primary computer, which is where Apple and Andoid bungled with special OS and a whole different suite of software apps, MS is poised to rock the computer world.

This tablet is a netbook killer and potentially the end of the traditional laptop as we know it.

Since it's a full blown Win 8 device, and assuming it can just plug into your home network like any other Windows PC and use all your existing software, this thing is plainly going to rock.

I want it and I want it NOW!


Microsoft is just delivering a full blown computer dressed up like a tablet, exactly what we wanted in the first place, end of story, sold. Of course I've wanted it since I held my first Windows tablet/pen computing device way back in '91 and it finally looks like they've pulled their heads far enough out of their tailpipes to deliver it.

Apple should finally be nervous.

The kb is an addition/option, for those that prefer a kb


That's how you replace netbooks and kill laptops all in one swoop, make peripherals available from the start as a planned part of the product and not a clunky aftermarket add-on.

The fact that it's Windows may mean it'll operate MS software tools


Not just for corporate types, for all of us with investments in Windows software.

Having to switch from Windows to Android to iOS or whatever is a big old mess and leaves lots of room for incompatibility and buggy transitions which a unified Windows platform easily solves and reduces the overall software investment. Also, since Surface is a real computer, you could theoretically run an Android emulator and port all your existing Android apps to Surface. Even Apple doesn't have a clean transition with the Mac and iStuff, so if MS doesn't bungle this they could regain the upper hand.

FWIW, if all I had to do was dock this thing with a 24"+ screen (or two or three) to be able to use it as my primary computer, then the desktop as we know it would be essentially dead.

I'll title this episode in computing history "The Empire Strikes Back"
5:37 pm on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6717
votes: 230


FWIW, if all I had to do was dock this thing with a 24"+ screen (or two or three) to be able to use it as my primary computer, then the desktop as we know it would be essentially dead.

I wouldn't want to try to run most of my win software ( adobe and autodesk stuff ) on it at current ( and near future ) specs, and you'd need to run a few USB hubs an have additional ports..and somewhere for a mouse* ( can't do real image work or 3D or precision with a trackpad )..and it will need hacking to get rid of the awful interface..( I tried win8 , the interface does get in the way for the way non Joe and Jane 6 pack users work )..the current win8 hacks still leave metro to "jump out" at you..

But for form factor ( easy always there keyboard ) and running a full OS ( and linux side by side or in VM ) ..yes ..I'd agree with you Bill..

It can be a game changer ..

If they can get it in the shops soon, at a reasonable price point..and not be greedy..especially outside of the USA..none of this $100.00 equals €100.00 or £100.00 pounds etc gouging that goes on from everyone on hardware and software..

If the above were fixed..and it were out today ..then Apple would be worried, and so would the Android tablet makers.. as would all the ultra book, laptop and netbook makers..

* graphics tablet is even better..I like to have mouse, wacom and keyboard..it might fit a mid range wacom like a "sandwich" ..I have one which is very thin and about these dimensions..need to find a ruler that measures in inches, or convert from cm ..

[edited by: Leosghost at 5:53 pm (utc) on Jun 19, 2012]

5:43 pm on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ken_b is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Oct 5, 2001
posts:5668
votes: 60


Where are the specs for this thing?

Any hard drive or other local storage options?

USB plugs? How many?

What about the battery? Can it be removed and replaced?
7:18 pm on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Administrator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Jan 25, 2005
posts:14624
votes: 88


I wouldn't want to try to run most of my win software ( adobe and autodesk stuff )


People forget that Adobe and Autodesk used to run on a 286 back in the day. The size of the images you're working on really dictate the kind of horsepower you need as little web graphics is hardly taxing on a computer compared to dealing with full size images and photo retouching, etc.

Average user doesn't really use that kind of power software, just MS Office, email and a browser. These days the browser is almost the only tool many people use all day long because most of their applications are no longer on the desktop.

Funny thing is that the people on WebmasterWorld are not the customers that these companies have in mind for these products. Everyone on WebmasterWorld complains about all sorts of stuff in computers which I can assure you, most people I know, other than programmers and web designers, don't care about whatsoever.

You have to put on your marketing cap when you look at products and see who the audience is and even if you're not the intended audience, could you benefit from building aftermarket products for that intended audience?

There's going to be money to be made here, the question is whether or not people can divorce themselves from silly mental roadblocks that would stop them from profiting from the next wave of technology.
7:40 pm on June 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6717
votes: 230


Wasn't the same adobe or autodesk ..the last two adobe suites are bigger than my first HD..:)

But we ( and you ) were also talking about what we ( and you would like ;-)
I want it and I want it NOW!


Agreed ..the current specs of surface will be more than enough for most users..

re "after market items" for it..

It doesn't appear to need any ..and I'm not going to chase after every "new car that passes" trying to invent a gadget for it..:) ..nor spend my time inventing add ons for others products..

I have more than enough work to do with my current businesses on and offline..various "niches" ( not all "tech" )..already I could use some clones :)
3:41 am on June 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Oct 13, 2003
posts:693
votes: 0


+Chuckle+
I've never seen incrediBILL so excited.

Bill, wake up, this is a Microsoft product.

It will surely be awful.

Q/Apple should finally be nervous./Q

+Double Chuckle+
You can be sure Jobs left behind all the planning Apple need to make the iPad what it really should be. That step was, and is so obvious. But like the iPad had to wait for the technology to be able to do what he wanted it to do, so it will be for the "Lap/Desktop-beating Tablet".

The use of flash memory in the new MacBook Pro is a dead-giveaway.

Ignore the MS sideshow, and wait for the one that works.
3:58 am on June 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

joined:Dec 28, 2005
posts:605
votes: 0


FWIW, if all I had to do was dock this thing with a 24"+ screen (or two or three) to be able to use it as my primary computer, then the desktop as we know it would be essentially dead.

I'll title this episode in computing history "The Empire Strikes Back"


Me too...

Cant wait to see it in stores already!
8:03 am on June 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator robert_charlton is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Nov 11, 2000
posts:11314
votes: 165


All that incredibill said... I hope.

I am initially encouraged by what I see on the Microsoft announcement and here... http://www.surface.com [surface.com] about its generally usability as a tablet and as a notebook. I'm not sure about legacy software on this thing, eg, but there is a lot of attention to detail.

The specs and pics together answer many of the questions I had, like where do you put the cover, is it wireless, does it have a camera, etc? Not yet sure whether I'll have to return to kindergarten to take a refresher course in finger painting.

I also note that MS isn't nagging me to install Silverlight in order to play their demo video, which, while it's flashy and doesn't tell me much, does suggest a level of thought about the outside world I haven't seen from MS in a while.
8:23 am on June 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 27, 2003
posts:788
votes: 0


Here is the specs Ken

it is from
[microsoft.com...]

Surface for Windows RT

• OS: Windows RT

• Light(1): 676 g

• Thin(2): 9.3 mm

• Clear: 10.6” ClearType HD Display

• Energized: 31.5 W-h

• Connected: microSD, USB 2.0, Micro HD Video, 2x2 MIMO antennae

• Productive: Office ‘15’ Apps, Touch Cover, Type Cover

• Practical: VaporMg Case & Stand

• Configurable: 32 GB, 64 GB


Surface for Windows 8 Pro

• OS: Windows 8 Pro

• Light(1): 903 g

• Thin(2): 13.5 mm

• Clear: 10.6” ClearType Full HD Display

• Energized: 42 W-h

• Connected: microSDXC, USB 3.0, Mini DisplayPort Video, 2x2 MIMO antennae

• Productive: Touch Cover, Type Cover, Pen with Palm Block

• Practical: VaporMg Case & Stand

• Configurable: 64 GB, 128 GB


equally excited like incrediBILL. Way to go MS!

The thing i am sold is like incrediBILL, Full blown Desktop/laptop capabilities with OFFICE and all other products in a tab.! - i have not seen this but have seen the prototype or in research Samsung device with Win 8 in it..awesome. Why i mentioned this, i can see all most all similarities between that device and this NEW surface.
I have experienced Surface (the big device – used at Vegas by many casinos) in 2006 or probably 2007 and since then I was thinking why cant MS do this….they already have technology and product which can go and compete iPad. Then I came across this image on social network – lol [picasaweb.google.com...]
4:47 pm on June 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Administrator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Jan 25, 2005
posts:14624
votes: 88


Bill, wake up, this is a Microsoft product.

It will surely be awful.


I've been using MS products since Level II Basic showed up in my TRS-80 Model I

I've built an entire career on MS products including Windows products that sold over $100M/yr.

MS products have been far from awful, they've been very very good to me.

Until it came to the internet and servers, then I switched to Linux ;)

Seriously, I've wanted to carry my entire computing life in my pocket since I've read Arthur C. Clarke's "Imperial Earth" as a kid and we're finally getting close, so of course I'm excited! Who knew that in my lifetime I'd go from 64K 5" floppies to 64GB chips the size of a fingernail. Someday soon, very soon, we could be recording all the sights and sounds of our daily lives just like the guy in the book. Could pretty much do it today with the right resolution, compression and using a 64GB chip day, a tad expensive, but doable.

Not to mention, in case you missed it, the new glucose fuel cells [pcmag.com] they just announced that take power directly from the glucose in your body to power computer chips.

Soon the devices won't even be truly external like the tablet or the cell phone, see Google Glasses for what's coming next and it'll probably end up on a contact lens being powered by your own glucose in your tears using those new fuel cells.

Welcome to the Borg, resistance is futile! :)

Full blown Desktop/laptop capabilities with OFFICE and all other products in a tab.


With new video technologies like the Retina display, which is roughly 4x data of a normal display, you could squeeze enough readable text on a 10" display, probably as much as we get on a 24" display, to actually do some real work assuming you carry around some 2x reading glasses so you can see what in the heck it says. May sound silly but carrying around a pair of magnifying reading glasses vs lugging a 17" laptop monitor is a fair trade IMO for having a truly mobile office.

Of course you could always switch the screen size back to something normal when not in 'office' mode too.

You can be sure Jobs left behind all the planning Apple need to make the iPad what it really should be.


... and I'm sure the fine people at Toys 'R Us will be happy selling those toys to tots when an adult tablet finally comes to town.
10:09 pm on June 20, 2012 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

5+ Year Member

joined:Mar 27, 2010
posts:423
votes: 0


Those who're not in favor of MS products might like this :)

[youtube.com...]
1:24 am on June 21, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Oct 13, 2003
posts:693
votes: 0


Q/I've built an entire career on MS products including Windows products that sold over $100M/yr.

MS products have been far from awful, they've been very very good to me./Q

Ahh I see, you're an MS repairman!

Q/Seriously, I've wanted to carry my entire computing life in my pocket since I've read Arthur C. Clarke's "Imperial Earth" as a kid and we're finally getting close, so of course I'm excited!/Q

Arthur has a lot to answer for. Pity he didn't see what was really coming. Too late now.

Q/... a fair trade IMO for having a truly mobile office./Q

That would be progress? Surely you remember the good ol'days when telephones were in big red boxes, and at work?

And home was home.

Q/ ...and I'm sure the fine people at Toys 'R Us will be happy selling those toys to tots when an adult tablet finally comes to town./Q

+Chuckle+ An easy way to compare current tablets is to go to a mall and sample the connected ones on show. Within minutes you can walk round and compare the very best Samsung, Sony, Blackberry, and Apple have to offer. MS are a no-show.

It's a quick lesson in ergonomic design you won't forget.

Apple's competitors are "Flumoxed" indeed.
1:52 am on June 21, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ken_b is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Oct 5, 2001
posts:5668
votes: 60


Here is the specs Ken


Thanks
2:12 am on June 21, 2012 (gmt 0)

Administrator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Jan 25, 2005
posts:14624
votes: 88


Ahh I see, you're an MS repairman!

Why do I feed the iTroll.
12:30 pm on June 21, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Oct 13, 2003
posts:693
votes: 0


Ouch!

Definitely not trolling. Only pulling your leg Sir.

I've learned a lot from your posts here over the years.

That's why I was so surprised to see your enthusiasm for "Surface".

Let us know if it meets your expectations.
6:40 pm on June 21, 2012 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 26, 2003
posts:1284
votes: 0


I for one can't wait for the Pro version if it can be priced less than the current Samsung Series 7
10:26 pm on June 21, 2012 (gmt 0)

Administrator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Jan 25, 2005
posts:14624
votes: 88


I for one can't wait for the Pro version if it can be priced less than the current Samsung Series 7


I think you have to consider the value of the entire package and it's capabilities as one can do far more than the other simply by design. It's not an even comparison because one tablet will run all your existing software, just like a laptop would, and the other runs a toy OS designed to run toy apps.

That's why I was so surprised to see your enthusiasm for "Surface".


HP was going to launch a Windows 7 tablet a while back and scuttled the thing. So I've been waiting and waiting and waiting for a tablet that runs a full blown OS and real software for quite some time.

If anything, I think I'm being very patient at a minimum :)

Obviously I could've pulled the trigger on an iPad but because of the kiddie OS and kiddie apps it runs I didn't find the value received worth the typical Apple overpricing for their gizmos so we got a Nook Tablet instead and have been quite happy with it for what it does for the price.

Angry Birds is much more fun to play for $200 than $500 if you ask me.
This 34 message thread spans 2 pages: 34