Windows 10 2004 Horrific Update

[RedBar]

I am now at the point of seriously considering Apple and binning all Windows products.

They annoyed me with dropping mobile however this 2004 is horrific, I am losing machines for hours on end, 6-8 has been very common, and even when updated some of the machines do not start normally. One has to have the "on" button pressed for 25 seconds before it will start.

Every machine has had to have several re-starts to get them running anywhere near smoothly and as for a 32GB netbook, well, it wants me to create space however it is Windows that has used all the space and even though I have a 128GB drive attached to it, it's still asking for more space that it's using.

I've never liked Win 10 from the very start, it was fine on mobile with hardly ever an issue, however this could easily be the last straw for me.

Interestngly my Vista and Win 7 machines are running perfectly.

[engine]

I know what you mean.
Some machines seem fine, while others end up being so sluggish they are awful to use.

I don't understand why some machines end up being so bad.

[JorgeV]

Hello,

"Linux"

[RedBar]

I tried Linux a few years back and really couldn't get on with it, I ought to give it another go, any recommendations?

My 32GB netbook is now almost full of 2004 files which it can't install due to lack of space, bear in mind this netbook is as bare bones as possible with only two browsers and very little else, any suggestions what to do with it?

It's still working fine othere than being almost full. It is not used for anything but going from room to room round the house, nothing else.

[JorgeV]

Hello

ny recommendations

From my experience, Ubuntu is the Linux distribution which is the easier to install everywhere. It seems to support "anything". I never come up with an issue, or incompatible devices/hardware.

Then, personally, I like Linux Mint which is based on Ubunutu (which itself is based on Debian). However, once, I came up with an incompatibility with a netbook, where Ubuntu was installing fine.

[Terabytes]

Under the hood this is a very major update. It's the very beginning of the separation of the core and UX in order to move to Windows as a service that has been in the cards for a while.
Basically the update (2004) is more core related, so it's a major internal change to your operating systems 'operation'. That's the reason for the long upgrade times...

The idea is that Windows will transition away from being a monolithic product to become a pay-to-play scenario where everyone 'rents' Windows for a fixed period.

[RedBar]

Please explain a little more. Do you mean that Windows will be the basic OS with everything else MS to be "paid for"?

Will the OS be free?

I can tell you it's annoyed several of us in our business intensely and other people we have spoken to are also screaming with rage ... MS has truly screwed-up by not informing just how long this process could / would take.

I have a solicitor friend whose entire print / document Epson and Canon gear has all been wiped out ... Everything is having to be re-installed. Needless to say legal action will be forthcoming if possible.

[JorgeV]

Hello,

in order to move to Windows as a service

I didn't know that, but it's been a while I am no longer really paying attention to Windows news.

But , I guess this is only for future installations, currently installed Windows, will continue to work, isn't it?

I own a Windows 7 license, which allowed me to upgrade one of my PC to Windows 10 (this is my only Windows PC), I keep it to test things mostly. However, I hope that tomorrow, it will not requires me start a subscription, to continue to use it.

But all this, confirm I did well to switch to Linux, 10 years ago.

[PCInk]

A folder called windows.old is created making a backup during the update. This was over 20Gb on my system. Windows 10 had been on the computer for about 2 hours but I had installed a few other programs so it was virtually a fresh install for me.

There seems to be no way I can find to store the windows.old on a different drive. Shame because I have a 64Gb SSD but it was three quarters full by the time it had finished. I removed this folder using disk cleanup and around half of it is used now. On a 32Gb system, you have little chance unless that windows.old can be stored elsewhere, for example on the virtually empty 500Gb drive in the same computer!

[Terabytes]

I don't believe that Windows will ever be 100% as a service, however Windows 10 Enterprise users have already migrated some companies to that platform. As an example, the enterprise customers did not receive the Win 2004 update, there was no need, they are already on the new core and have been there for sometime.

The actual WaaS change for Joe Average won't happen for a little while, but it's coming and 2004 is the beginning of it behind the scenes.

Its a distinct change from their tradition of perpetual licenses, but I think stand alone licensing will have to be made available for users without Internet access. Depending upon how this may be ultimately deployed it may even mean some cost savings for some businesses depending upon how many PC's they have. But keep in mind, this will move Windows from a "per device" to a "per user" licensing method. You pay for a monthly account, your wife pays a monthly account, each child pays a month account... you wouldn't just create a new user on the machine to add someone to it...

I actually see it a a money grab, in the past once they sell you a license for the OS the deal is over and you use that software basically forever. Subscription methods will add to their bottom line again.

As far as messing up drivers and such, keep in mind that Microsoft used to have rooms full of different hardware to test their software in the past. Those days are gone replaced with virtual machines and 'software' emulated hardware (that doesn't work too well sometimes). Computers have been around a while now and people still utilize older hardware and software along with those people that use bleeding edge hardware, it's just not possible to test every conceivable permutation of hardware any longer so now issues crop up. It's something we just have to put up with sometimes in order to keep moving forward.

I've seen a lot in the last 30+ years of networking, but I do agree it's getting more and more out of hand as time goes by...
Look up WaaS for more detailed info about it, but currently you probably wont get any solid answers since it's not available to the general public as of yet.

[Terabytes]

PCInk - Open File Explorer, Right-click on your drive and select 'Properties', click the "Disk Cleanup' button, Select what you wish from the checkboxes and then click 'Clean up system files'. You will be prompted with the list again after clean up runs through your files (re-check your check boxes) and check the "windows update files" selection'... and go... it will prompt you to verify that you want to remove your old systems files and that you can't revert to the previous version of windows... Done...

[RedBar]

Ouch, thanks for that info ... it will actually make our decision making easier going forwards.

[engine]

@redbar, see this about the printer issue. [webmasterworld.com...]

[RedBar]

Thanks engine, link passed on.

How are my updates going?

One laptop seems to be running fine now however another laptop which updated Saturday / Sunday and was running fine suddenly had another update last night after being on for 12 hours. It seems ok this morning.

The biggest revalation has been my little 32GB Acer Switch, a convertible. After deleting loads of built-in APPs etc to make space that the new files were taking up so it could install, well, it's nothing short of transformed this machine!

Whether I deleted some completely unnecessary garbage I am not sure however this thing is a delight to use now in tablet mode, fast, smooth and easily the best tablet I have used.

I reckon I deleted something but who cares, now I have another half a dozen of these to do.

[RedBar]

Oh dear, one Acer Switch playing up, another on its final updating is at 16% after 5 hours, another laptop is very slow and jerky.

I hope these things smooth out otherwise it's a visit to EBay or an Apple Store!

Or Linux ... Can I be bothered to learn this?

[engine]

I've found that: Some machines appear sluggish, while others, of the same spec, are fine.
I did find that turning off the antivirus while updating made a big difference to performance.

[RedBar]

Wow, 7 hrs 50 mins ... but working, now for my daughter's Lenovo Ideapad I've just been handed!

[engine]

Yes, wow, that really is bad, and it shouldn't be like that.
Sluggish updates here have taken a couple of hours, which has not been impressed me.

[RedBar]

Strangely this Lenovo will not update to 2004 whereas an identical model updated a breeze!

I'm getting several phone calls a day from people asking for advice on what to do, some have completely blank screens with the system seemingly doing nothing. My advice has been to leave the machine switched on and walk away and so far all of them have "recovered" and gone on to update.

Honestly, I just wonder how many seemingly "bricked" devices there are out there?

In my opinion this is diabolical, non-existent customer information and service!

[Terabytes]

Microsoft still has about a dozen Win 10 (2004) compatibility holds on devices due to incompatibility issues with certain Nvidia, Intel, and Realtek adapters. The prior patch Tuesday had lots of issues with drivers. This Win 10 2004 rollout is MS's slower more cautious approach to feature releases since the data loss issue in update 1809.

I have a few boxes still waiting for the update myself. Don't panic...lol... it's coming, MS is hoping this slow rollout won't lead to as many problems, or that they can catch issues before they effect a multitude of users.

[not2easy]

Is it possible that some security program is slowing down these changes? Or scheduled tasks in the background interrupt? It does not sound like a well thought out change.

[Terabytes]

I'm sure that some people load up an additional anti virus program on their system along with the already installed Windows Defender due to sales hype. This causes Defender and the other AV program to duke it out concerning whos going to lock and scan the current file first, after which the other program gets to scan that same file again. This causes A LOT of systems to process everything slower, and it's totally unnecessary. I won't mention the resource bloat that also comes with most AV products...

I'm not an MS Fanboy, and I'm not sure why people would install another AV program on top of Defender when it's a top rated AV program.

Seriously, who knows the inner workings of windows better than MS? Who's trying to protect their systems for free, and whos out for a buck?
8-)

[engine]

I'm not sure why people would install another AV program on top of Defender when it's a top rated AV program.

I can only speak for myself over my own antivirus software installation, and I use it because it does so much more, and has successfully blocked lots of problems. I've yet to see Defender beat it to anything.

[Terabytes]

I've yet to see Defender beat it to anything

I do get what you're saying, some of those programs handle local DNS requests to watch over your email, websites you visit and such for malware and phishing, etc.. Granted, that's more than Defender does. But Defender is just an AV program not a suite of internet things. So that type of program would benefit some users that may need that to guard their personal web surfing habits. Two different types of products...

I was just trying to point out the issue with loading up an additional AV program slowing the file system down. Sorry...

[engine]

You're correct, it does slow the system, and I'm glad you made the reminder for those that don't realise.
I turn it off when installing trusted software. Another example, from a site at position 1 in Google SERPs had malware when I clicked through. My software blocked the malware. I also reported it to Google as there was no flag on the SERPs.

[RedBar]

A friend was notified late this afternoon, from start to finish 1 hr 45 mins ... I've told him to check the About in Settings ... he's gone quiet.

[RedBar]

Here's an interesting story.

I decided over the weekend to update an Acer all-in-one system from Win 7 to Win 10, It hadn't been done before since it had no issues and was the family generic PC sitting in the lounge for all and sundry to use and the movie download system.

It updated to the last version of Win 7 as expected and very smoothly then I let the MS website test it for a 10 update and left it to its own devices. I returned no more than 3 hours later to see a machine not only running Win 10 but 2004!

Obviously 2004 needs some time to settle in and smooth down however it's all looking good at the moment and now I'm getting grief for not having done it before :-((

I've always liked using this PC, at the moment MS good job so far.

[PCInk]

One computer took about 1 hour 45 minutes to do this horror update. I don't know why, I decided to see if there were any more updates. Update 2004 has NOT installed at all! There is a message when you go the update window about 2004 saying that it is coming soon. Must have some hardware issue or something that they have a problem with and can't update.

So maybe I am still waiting for this 8 hour wait in the future still.

Anyone else where it has taken less than a few hours, can you go into settings->update and see if you are getting the same message? This update was definitely listed and all updates were completed a week ago, apparently.

[RedBar]

IME it will not update to 2004 without your current version being up-to-date. It does not have to be 1909, to whit my Win 7 machine that updated to January 2020's last version of 7 and then went straight to 2004.

I have three supposedly "identical" Lenovo laptops, one went to 2004 a breeze, one says it is up-to-date on 1909 and will be updated soon, the other I don't know yet since we're awaiting its return from the Police !.!.!

[engine]

I'm finding the biggest problem being the hogging of resources. I'm constantly running into disk and memory being hogged by Microsoft applications. These are apps that come with the machine.
I've had to put off some projects because the system no longer has the "power" to cope with the additional resources demanded by the MS apps. Task Manager shows me that the vast majority of apps causing problems are apps that I haven't started, but are "phoning home."
I'm beginning to think it's this machine as my laptop doesn't seem to have a problem and has a lot less resources.