Number of key phrases: Too broard or too narrow

[kapow]

For a standard small business website to promote lets say - aromatherapy:
What is a good number of key phrases to target in order to have a good chance of rating well on Google? (I am talking about phrases used throughout the page, not just in the key word tag). I started out thinking that a site should target 10 related key phrases, but now I'm wondering if that is too broad an approach. Is it better to narrow the aim down to say 3 phrases and write a few pages for each phrase?

[agerhart]

I think that you are thinking on the right track....you could bump it up to 4 or 5 and still be safe

[kapow]

Thanks Agerhart
How many phrases would you target? And how many pages would you create for each phrase?

I get the feeling that 1 page for 1 phrase isn't going to rate much. I have created a site recently that targets one phrase (about 10 pages) it hits the top on Google and some other SEs - but that many pages for 1 phrase is a bit off-putting to my new clients.

[agerhart]

It all depends on the site: how much info you have, and how many different categories you have.

A site I have just completefd targets a total of about ten keywords, but they all fit into the theme.

In your instance maybe it is good to shoot for 5 and make 3-4 pages for each.

Again, it is hard to say, as it all depends on the site.

[paynt]

When you look at the keyword aromatherapy using the GoTo tool you find the following as the top searches. If I had a client who offered each these items I would definitely build a page around each of them. I would probably not create a page for organic but rather sprinkle the word throughout each page, if they truly offered organic.

25813 aromatherapy
2480 aromatherapy candle
1663 aromatherapy oil
1332 aromatherapy product
746 aromatherapy recipe
664 aromatherapy diffuser
514 aromatherapy soap
439 aromatherapy essential oil
314 aromatherapy massage
313 aromatherapy supply
297organic aromatherapy

When looking for keywords I first look at what the client actually has to offer, what content they can provide or generate to support the keyword, what people are searching for [such as the GoTo suggestions] and then I would create copy that recreates the natural way of expressing the keyword. This natural expression part is important to capture alternatives to the keyword suggestion tool. If 2480 people searched for aromatherapy candle, we also see as we move down the list that 128 searched for candle aromatherapy and 69 for aromatherapy candle gift. Taken alone the last two wouldn’t warrant their own page but combined with aromatherapy candle are worth developing into the content of one page.

[kapow]

I have seen much in the forums on themes (I seem to remember that you have written some great stuff on themes here). Should the 'theme' be treated as THE target key-phrase and all other phrases/pages are there to support it? I can easily find (using the goto tools) 10 phrases that searchers will use to find my clients services - but my concern is what chance I have of rating well for all of them?

[agerhart]

I wouldn't try and shoot for ten......actually I just made a note that I am going to change my site so that it tagrgets fewer keywords.

>>>Should the 'theme' be treated as THE target key-phrase and all other phrases/pages are there to support it?>>>>

The theme should be the target phrase......but a broad term, and it should reside on the main page.

For example, the theme could be baseball, and the main keyword would be baseball on the main page. Then on the second level pages, you would have keywords like american league teams, with links to the american league teams and some keyword rich text about the american league.

On the third level you would have pages about each american league team and the keywords would be the names of them.

You would link each of the third levels to each other, and each of the second levels to each other.

All of these are relevant to the main topic "baseball" and all of the pages below the main page are supporting it.

Does anyone think I am missing anything?

[paynt]

Permit me using again the term aromotherapy...

To create it around themes and select the keywords to support it then you need to first make the site about nothing but aromatherapy. Then you determine what you have to offer. As suggested you can go with
Candles
Essential oil
Soap
Massage oil

Build a page for each of these. I like article form these days, like a news item spouting the special properties of and such. If you can break them down further it’s even better.
/essential-oil/
/essential-oil/bath/
/essential-oil/spiritual/
/essential-oil/emotional/

And then make each of those pages all about that. Link all the essential oil pages to each other.

Myself, I would build this using canonicals and it would look like

essential.myaromatherapysite.com/bath/spiritual/
essential.myaromatherapysite.com/bath/emotional/
essential.myaromatherapysite.com/bath/wealth/
with
essential.myaromatherapysite.com/massage/spiritual/
essential.myaromatherapysite.com/massage/emotional/
essential.myaromatherapysite.com/massage/wealth/

The linking possibilities are then very good, to start a site with, and also good for external linking partnerships. In this manner you stay on theme.

[WebGuerrilla]

>>I can easily find (using the goto tools) 10 phrases that searchers will use to find my clients services - but my concern is what chance I have of rating well for all of them?

The other thing you should take a look at is competitive page counts. That will determine how many phrases you can realisticly target, and how many individual pages you will need to cover your terms.

Another point to consider about the GoTo tool is that all the phrases you listed are actually searched on in the plural form, and a great deal of those counts are probably competitors running position reports. If you target the terms the way GoTo shows them, you'll miss out on on a great deal of traffic.

Using one of the fee based tools, the list of popular phrases looks more like this:

aromatherapy
aromatherapy recipes
aromatherapy oils
aromatherapy diffusers
aromatherapy candles
aromatherapy products
aromatherapy scents
aromatherapy supplies

(edited by: WebGuerrilla at 3:08 pm (gmt) on July 24, 2001

[kapow]

I see Paynt's point - some phrases can all go on the same page. If we take the aromatherapy example - I have clients who would like a site that promotes this but they also provide about 5 other related services such as: Hypnotherapy, Meditation, Reiki... My clients would like everything that they offer on their website - my concern is about diluting their possibility of rating highly. Perhaps the question is: How much variation of key phrases is best?

[Drastic]

>The other thing you should take a look at is competitive page counts.

And the bid amounts (at goto) for the terms.

You want to find terms that are searched more frequently, are related to the site, and are less competitive.

A keyword that is searched 3k times could be more productive than one searched 10k times, if it is much less competitive.

I would shoot for one primary phrase for each page. As far as total number of keywords/phrases, I think it depends on how much content you have to work with. More content = more pages = more phrases.

It can also help to build several pages for one phrase.

[agerhart]

>>>A keyword that is searched 3k times could be more productive than one searched 10k times, if it is much less competitive.>>>>

This is true, but you have to make sure that you are still going to have targeted traffic.

If aromatherapy candles are less competitive but you don't offer any, there is no point in optimizing for aromatherapy candles instead of aromatherapy

[paynt]

I think if you are aiming for themes using the terms Aromatherapy, Hypnotherapy, Meditation, Reiki... I would create separate sites and then theme each of those out for the actual keywords for the items or services provided.

myaromatherapysite.com
myhypnotherapysite.com
mymeditationsite.com
myreikisite.com

You could go for the department store – hub effect and call it
myholisticsite.com
with canonicals

aromatherapy.myholisticsite.com
hypnotherapy.myholisticsite.com
meditation.myholisticsite.com
reiki.myholisticsite.com

I have the best and quickest success with the top example but also very good success with the bottom example. It just depends to what level you take it out and how you tie in all the various themes so they are supported by the myholisticsite.com overall theme.

This is of course in addition to the excellent posts by by fellow contributers and is more in line with how to set up and develop initially a themed site based on the keywords you are promoting.

[kapow]

Thankyou everyone for the excellent guidence. Many of my clients are small businesses and probably can't afford 5 websites. It looks like I should recommend that such a website targets one service.

It also looks like there is a direct relationship between the optimum number of pages required to get a result for a key phrase and the popularity of the phrase e.g. a rare phrase would only require 1 page, whilst a fairly popular phrase would requir say 3 pages - and this can probably be deduced from the goto tools.

Does that sound right?

[agerhart]

sounds logical to me

[kapow]

So who wants to have a stab at the number of pages required according to the popularity of the phrase on goto? e.g.

picture of aardvarks (42 searches) 1 page
aromatherapy oil (1663 searches) 3 pages
event management (5528 searches) 10 pages

[Drastic]

>make sure that you are still going to have targeted traffic

Exactly -

>>You want to find terms that are searched more frequently, are related to the site, and are less competitive.

>Does that sound right?
Yes, but I wouldn't rely solely on goto. Use # of pages listed in a couple of the bigger engines for another competition gauge. Also consider another keyword tool, such as wordtracker, for search counts for popularity. This gives you a better overall picture, goto results (especially search counts) can be a bit skewed.

[kapow]

Re. <Targeted traffic> I agree - I only wish to make web sites for services my clients actually provide.

Re. WordTracker - can someone tell me the url?

There seems to be a link between the popularity of a phrase and the quantity & quality of webpages required to rate on Google. There is no point creating a site for a client if it doesn't attract potential customers for them, I would really like to be able to say to my client how extensive their website must be in order to reach a targetted audience. For example if I get a client who wishes to sell 'pictures of aardvarks' on a website it looks like this is a farily easy task because it is not a popular phrase, whilst - if I have a client who wishes to sell their 'event management' services then they have more competition and so the website must be more extensive.

I know that link popularity is very important too but I would really like to find out if anyone has an idea about the ratio of onsite quality pages to phrase popularity. (according to which ever measure of populary you prefer).

[paynt]

kapow, I notice more with regards to the content of the site. In other words, each page needs to provide optimized content specific to the keyword. A page that is all about what it's all about, from the tags, through the headings and into the text with complimentary images. I then make sure that my anchor text in my links reflect the page topic and that it's both internally and externally linked to stay on topic or on theme. A larger site may give you more opportunity to take these themes out to more specific levels, which could improve your chances of exposure while supporting your theme.

I try to remember to stay focused on the specific keyword at hand. You're right that a site about 'pictures of aardvarks' will at the onset appear to be easier to capture that specific audience than 'event management'. The challenge here is to make 'event management' more specific. To take apart 'event management' and create specific little 'event management' niches. Get it down to the very nitty gritty, using only the terms your client can actually produce products and/or services for and maximize those.

[Drastic]

>someone tell me the url
Just stick .com on the end.

>ratio of onsite quality pages to phrase popularity

There are really no hard and fast rules like this in SEO. It depends on how competitive the phrase is, your expertise in SEO, what market it is for, etc. etc.

You can hit your target engines with the phrase you are looking for, look at top10 results for a gauge, and to see how your competition is getting there.

[agerhart]

The trouble I have found is trying to theme out a site and put in a good amount of content for each theme topic, when there isn't that much content to go in that topic. I am running into this problem right now.

[kapow]

I know what you mean Agerhart. Whats your guess at the amount of content required to match the popularity of the phrase? I was at the WMW PupConference on Saturday (EXCELLENT!!). Some say it can be done with one page (if its the 'right' page) I don't think I'm that good, so I'm seeking a rough guide for quantity vs popularity.

[ggrot]

Actually, I generally build up a list of 100 keywords(and keyword phrases) on average for a site. I put them all in a nice big excel spreadsheet.

Then I go and populate fields with number of results returned on one of the engines(which engine changes from time to time based on my mood), the number of expected searches per unit time, and a human evaluation ranking from 1-5 concerning relevancy. Then there is a weight value that corresponds to my opinion of the overall competitiveness in the SE's for this market(for example..."homepage" returns alot of results, but isn't really that competitive). All of this then gets calculated into a grand sum kinda deal and this final number plus a little personal fudging lets me choose a few of the top keywords/phrases to begin with. The rest of the list stays with the project for things like PPC bidding, doorway pages, link exchange requests, building themes, etc.