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Do the most popular search terms really matter?

regarding the ratio of longer search terms to more specific ones

         

ScottD

5:29 pm on Mar 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Every day I log in to the big G and check my crucial search terms to see what position we hold. But does it really matter? Checking for the word "widget" shows that a lot of people look for that word on its own - lots lots more than look for "used widget". But lets say what we sell are used widgets. Fine, then its good to list for that phrase and maybe just plain "widget" was unrealistic. So...we focus all our attention on this phrase. The consequence though is that we neglect to use phrases like "second hand widgets" or "old widgets" etc etc. It seems to me that quite possibly if you add up all the phrases that aren't in the top searches, that don't appear to be important, you'll find in fact that they not only outweigh the phrase "used widgets" but also "widgets" just by itself. But I don't know. Would anyone like to throw in their opinion? Another way of arguing this is that its best just to write good content and watch user numbers, rather than really caring where you appear to be in the SERPs.

specter

6:33 pm on Mar 14, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



hi,

the fact is that single keywords bring more traffic but very often have an elevated number of competitor pages.
While the keyword phrases bring less (or very less)traffic ,but often have a few competitor pages.

We have to keep in mind this consideration when we are going to optimize our web site for the SEs,since if we start directly with the single keywords to obtain more traffic,due to the high number of competitors we 'll have a lot of difficulties to be well-ranked and we'll spend a lot of time and work (and maybe money)before to see the first results.
On the contrary with the "keyphrases" we obtain relatively soon our niche.

Moreover ,often single keywords brings more spam traffic than keyword phrases due to their generic nature:
For example,if I type "car",what I'm really looking for? A car seller? A garage? A spare parts store? A magazine?
While if I type "car rental" I point to a specific target.

ScottD

10:16 am on Mar 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Specter, I quite agree with what you are saying, but what I'm interested in is not whether you should aim for the golden keyord (car) or the more specific phrase (used car) - but whether you should aim at all, beacuse for every person that puts "used car" in their search, there are (maybe?) 99 more who put some other variant of that phrase in, but are basically looking for used cars. The trouble is their random brain patterns are so varied that the actual phrases are hugely variable, and never individually register as key phrases in tools like those of overture or #*$!. Or not? Heres some evidence though - I have a google adwords campaign on the main keyword for my area which we'll call "car" but is actually a city name - we do travel. If I direct that campaign at specific searches only by using [car] then G estimates 99 clicks per day. But if I leave it open to all seacrh term variants that include the word "car", G estimates over 100 times that number of clicks. But you know what, I'm going to check this theory further down the pyramid as maybe I'm being a bit dumb, and actually this only hold at the top.

specter

11:48 am on Mar 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The basic problem is that Adwords is conceived to collect as more clicks as possible in the primary interest of Google Company (don't forget that it is a payment marketing tool...).
So, it is quite limited as marketing tool,more suitable to the mass contact than the specific niches.
The question you pose cannot be solved using Adwords that in fact consider only relevant keywords(that brings much spam traffic due to their generical nature)trascuring all non-rilevant terms or key phrases or invalidating if you try to use them .
In order to reach your aim it's needed to optimize the web site for the SERP and for some specific keyword and phrases.This results also in a collateral effect that brings you traffic also for the keyword variants,due to the different matching criteria,as you would.And it's free!

ScottD

12:32 pm on Mar 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'm afraid you've lost me Specter. But I just checked out another example lower down the pyramid. Heres the results over the last 7 days of 2 terms in G Adwords: [mycity tourism] 849 impressions, mycity tourism 6,123 impressions. To make it clear - the [] means that only that exact phrase triggers the ad - no variants. Leaving these brackets out though means any phrase which includes these 2 words in any order triggers the ads. My conclusion - people write lots of different things in their searches.

specter

4:17 pm on Mar 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



OK.

Now I understood. You would know between the Exact Match Search (quoted keyword phrase)and the Generic Match Search (non quoted keyword phrase)wich one is more effective ,that's right?

Well,

I think you have to clear some concepts about that:

With the Exact Match criteria,your ad appears ONLY when someone types EXACTLY your keyword phrase,as it is quoted.Of course.

With the Generic Match criteria instead,your ad appears when someone types the terms you've choosen,it doesn't matter in wich order,BUT appears ALSO TO ANYONE TYPES A SEARCH STRING THAT CONTAINS TERMS THAT ARE IN SOME WAY RELATED WITH EACH TERM OF YOUR SEARCH PHRASE!

Let's make an example:

If I choose as keyword phrase "used cars" for Generic Match Search, my ad will appear to the ones that types "used cars" but ALSO to the ones that types any RELATED search string such as "used shoes" or "used books" or "car rental" or "italian car",so, to people that are completely disinterested to the used cars, do you understand?
It's perfectly normal that in this case your impression ratings increase greatly.But this value is nothing if we don't consider the parameters in the overall.
It doesn't make sense to talk only about "impressions" "clicks" or "conversions".

What does it mean 6000 impressions 12000 impressions 500000 impression? absolutely nothing!

Like the Clicks(visits):What does it mean 50 ,500 or 5000 clicks(visits) for a day? How many visitors have performed a required action such as to buy something on your web site?

In order to esthabilish the effectiveness of a campaign(or an ad)is needed to know the Click/Impression rate for example: How is the yours? Have you a lot of impressions but a few of clicks?
And your conversion rate? How many clicks become productive for you? A lot of them? A few of them?

If you want to know if Exact Match is more effective than Generic Search, than compares the parameters of the two.
Probably you'll discover that altough it brings to you less traffic the more effective solution is the Exact Match search.

ScottD

5:01 pm on Mar 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi Specter,

Thanks for your continuing support but I don't think you understand my question still, and your ideas about Google Adwords are not quite right.

Ads related to terms like used cars do not show for people searching for used hats but do show for people search for used rental cars or cheap used cars or even cars used in sports - both words need to be in the query in some order, or it would indeed be ridiculous.

My question is not about impressions. It is about search terms. I only use the impressions as evidence to support the idea that maybe SEO for specific terms is an error.

Let's consider it another way. You want to sell used cars, so you make a site with loads of cars etc, and you want the home page to come up in searches, so you heavily load it with the term used cars - lets be extreme and say you more or less just repeat this phrase 100 times, and you get away with it, and get to be number 1 under used cars

Forgetting the obvious point that your site looks idiotic, and noone will use it for more than 2 seconds, the big question is will you get more users than if you just wrote normal text about the product you are offering, even if that meant you didn't come up first under used cars (assuming you pop up in some places under some terms that you hadn't really considered now that you have more general text including various terms like old, second hand, refurbished, bargains etc etc

specter

8:14 pm on Mar 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Ads related to terms like used cars do not show for people searching for used hats but do show for people search for used rental cars or cheap used cars or even cars used in sports - both words need to be in the query in some order, or it would indeed be ridiculous.

That's right! :Re-reading my previous post I've realized the mistake.Excuse me.

the big question is will you get more users than if you just wrote normal text about the product you are offering, even if that meant you didn't come up first under used cars (assuming you pop up in some places under some terms that you hadn't really considered now that you have more general text including various terms like old, second hand, refurbished, bargains etc etc

Writing "normal text" would result in a disappointing ranking that will not brings enough traffic to your web site.Differences of only a few of "ranking points" can determinate the life or the dead of a web site as you know :The traffic on the third page of a SE can be -90% comparison to the first!

A good SEO work provides for one or two "drawing" keyword or keyword phrases to ensure the right ranking, that integrate a "normal text" as you call it,reach of related terms,and fondamentally written for the users, not for the SEs.

In this way, as I've tried to say to you previously,you can reach both the aims;you can get a high ranking for a largely used keyword or keyword phrase but you come up also for a lot of related terms.

ScottD

10:18 am on Mar 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks Specter. I will continue to aim for those golden key phrases and fill this out with meaningfull relevant text. hasta la proxima

specter

12:09 pm on Mar 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Exactly.
Remember that if you want to make a good work you can use a word tracker tool to view within the keyword or keyword phrases you're interested in,wich ones are REALLY frequently typed by the users across the internet so you can optimize pages for real serch terms.

I hope to have been almost a few useful for you ScottD.
Hasta la proxima!

mona

8:09 pm on Mar 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi, ScottD. First of all, Welcome to WebmasterWorld [webmasterworld.com]!

In response to your original post...

It seems to me that quite possibly if you add up all the phrases that aren't in the top searches, that don't appear to be important, you'll find in fact that they not only outweigh the phrase "used widgets" but also "widgets" just by itself. But I don't know. Would anyone like to throw in their opinion? Another way of arguing this is that its best just to write good content and watch user numbers, rather than really caring where you appear to be in the SERPs.

The idea way is to cover both. Optimize for your "crucial search terms" along with as many specific, related seach terms that you can. I can tell you by tracking the sales from an ecommerce site I do SEO for, we get more sales from very specific search terms than those "crucial search terms". But we still get sales from those, too;-)

Try reading Search Engine Theme Pyramids [searchengineworld.com] I think you'll see it addresses what you're starting to see on your own.
 

ScottD

9:36 am on Mar 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi Mona, Thanks for your reply. If you don't mind I'd be really interested to know exactly what you mean, as its clear you have the experience in this matter.

You say: we get more sales from very specific search terms than those "crucial search terms"

Can you clarify this with an example? To draw on all this car talk, do you mean you get more sales from terms like "used ford focus" than "used cars"? Am I understanding you correctly?

I really appreciate your input - these small issues can make a big difference to a small player like us.

Thanks! Scott

mona

7:30 pm on Mar 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Can you clarify this with an example? To draw on all this car talk, do you mean you get more sales from terms like "used ford focus" than "used cars"? Am I understanding you correctly?

Yep, that is exactly what I mean. It's not a lot more - maybe 60/40. But you really want to optimize for both.

Just so you know, ScottD. When giving KW examples, we're supposed to stick to "widgets" instead of specific keywords.

So for example, you want to optimize for Used Widget, Discount Widget, Brandnames Widgets, Used Brandname Widgets, Make Name Widget, Discount Make Name Widget, Model Number, see where this is going? : )

ScottD

9:15 am on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks Mona, you've been a great help, I really appreciate it. I did start off talking about "widgets" but somehow the cars thing got taken up, which is bad for me as I have not a clue about cars! Anyway, thanks again - I will now try and get some practical use out of the theory.

Scott