Forum Moderators: open

Message Too Old, No Replies

Looking into switching from Front Page to Dreamweaver

Front Page and Dreamweaver

         

DogLover

2:43 am on Aug 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi Everyone,
I have been using Front Page for about 5 years now. My web site has over 1,300 pages to it. The site is still growing. Often times when I go to make a link the program will crash. I think the site is just getting too big for FP to handle all the pages. I have been reading up on FP and decided to buy Dreamweaver, try to learn it, then switch. My problem is, just about all the pages on the site use Shared Boarders. Is there an easy way to switch from FP to DW keeping these shared areas? I realize DW does not have Shared Boarders, but surely it has got to have something similar I can create and paste my shared content into. Can this be done? I am hoping to not have to redue every page by hand. If so I may just stick with FP for a while longer. I have been reading books and searching the internet and cannot find an answer. I read about the templates, but can't get them to share an area on all pages of the site. I am using a test site to experiment until I figure out how to use the program better. I don't want to mess up my main site in trial and error. Can anyone help? I read a lot of posts where a lot of you are great code writers, just so you know; I do not know how to write code, I am hoping there is a simple answer. I am assuming switching from FP to DM will be a good move.

Sharon

[edited by: pageoneresults at 1:56 pm (utc) on Aug. 21, 2004]
[edit reason] Removed URI Reference - Please Refer to TOS [/edit]

rogerd

4:28 am on Aug 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member



Welcome to WebmasterWorld, Doglover. While the latest version of FP is supposed to be much improved, I agree with your decision to switch. Older FP versions did not handle larger sites well.

Dreamweaver uses templates, which you'll find to be quite a bit more versatile than shared borders. Templates let you create standard page designs and set multiple editable areas on the page. You aren't locked into fixed borders around a content box. You can also have as many templates on a site as you want, for different sections, different types of content, etc.

One suggestion - with the size your site is reaching, consider using SSI for standard content like navbars, headers, footers, etc. By making each of these areas a file, you can make changes very quickly - you need upload only the one small file. You won't have to regenerate and then upload a thousand pages just because you added one navigation link.

Good luck with the switch!

DogLover

1:21 pm on Aug 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thank you for your advice. I will have to look into SSI. Does it work like frames by any chance? I hear that frames are not all that great for search engine results. I read about the templates. Any idea if templates can be applied to existing pages, or do you have to start fresh and copy and paste all your info into the template page by page. I am starting to think this may be the case. Thank you again. I think I will be visiting this board often. I have learned a lot just by reading the posts.

Webwork

1:51 pm on Aug 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



You might want to read some of EuropeForVisitors - a/k/a EFV - posts. He runs a rather large site using FrontPage.

SSI are a great utility and are available in FP where they are simply called 'includes'.

You might benefit by breaking your site down into FP 'subwebs'. Do a little reading. It's makes it easier to update a site since you aren't working with 1300 pages all at once. I think EFV takes this approach.

rogerd

2:45 pm on Aug 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member



SSI are server side includes, and are simply a way to include the contents of one file in another. The browser or spider sees no difference at all in the HTML. Includes are a handy way to put standardized content on pages so that it can be changed without actually updating every page.

NeedScripts

2:49 pm on Aug 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



If you can get your hands on FP 2003, than I do not think you will need dreamweaver. Also, FP2003 should can easily handle a huge website.

Hope this helps.

DogLover

3:11 pm on Aug 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yes, it does help. I was just wondering to myself actually weather to go that route. I know how to use FP (I currently use FP 2002) and my older brother who works for a web company uses FP (tech support is a phone call away ;-) )
I did just purchase Dreamweaver, but hey, I do have a hobby site on the side of my main site which is much much smaller. Maybe I will put the smaller site on DW just to learn the program and not cry over my purchase and invest in FP 2003 and hope FP keeps getting better and better. Changing my main site to DW would take me hours and hours for days and days of just redoing every page. Before I invest in FP 2003 does anyone know if there is an FP 2004 due to come out soon?

jimbeetle

3:51 pm on Aug 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Welcome Doglover,

When I was thinking to make the switch from FP to DW there was a DW extension to help convert sites over. I never got around to trying it (And I can't check if it's still available because I don't want to take the time to download an updated Flash player and can't view that part of DW's site without it. Arrgh!), but that might be worth taking a look at.

But let's address the basic problem first:

Often times when I go to make a link the program will crash.

The solution: More memory.

While server side includes and FP's shared borders and include page functions at first blush appear to accomplish the same thing, there is a basic difference in the way they work.

With SSI, included content is plopped into a page as it is served. Each discrete page can be mean and lean, often containing just a few lines of code. When a page is requested, the server assembles all the bits and serves them as a single page.

Frontpage uses a different approach. All included bits, whether shared borders, included pages or parameters are saved as a whole for each page. When a page is requested, the server doesn't have to assemble anything, just spit out the page.

What this means is that when you make a change to a border shared by 1,300 pages Frontpage then has to update and save each page. If your local machine is memory challenged it can choke up.

You won't have to regenerate and then upload a thousand pages just because you added one navigation link.

Yeah, when publishling FP will chug through both the local and remote copies of the site to find which pages have changed, and for a large site that can take a few minutes. However, in the case of a change to a single included page it will only upload that one, then refresh each of the affected pages on the server. It will not upload all 1,300 of them. When pressed for time I occasionally FTP the single included page, then open the remote copy in FP and 'update hyperlinks.' A 2,000 page site with a halfway fast server takes about a minute or so to update.

So, just a couple of more things to think about while making your decision, Doglover. Good luck whichever way you decide.

DogLover

6:12 pm on Aug 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thank you everyone. You have been more help than you know. I have done a search on “DW extension to help convert sites over” and found some handy info. Including these two pages [jimthompson.net...] and [duxcw.com...] they are logs kept by two different people and their experience in switching over from FP to DW. I am still not decided on what I will do in the end. Switching over from FP to DW will prove to be a BIG task I am sure, especially since I would no longer be able to ring my brother for his insightful tips from time to time (he is the one who inspired me to build a web site to begin with). A task I am not sure if I have time for at the moment. I had not realized it was going to be this involved to switch programs and I did not realize the FP did not follow the HTML standard. For now I think I am going to follow these boards reading and reading to learn what I can. I am going to read up on SSI (includes as FP calls it) and I am going to find post by EFV, since he is a successful FP user. And Hey, I may even read a question I know the answer to and be able to post some help of my own ;-) Again Thank you all! I appreciate all your tips and any more anyone may have.