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New to this forums, but some comments/remarks/questions on the Google algorithm.
As it seems the Google algorithm now is based almost 100% on link popularity.
People buy lots of expired , but still listed in yahoo and dmoz, domains with a high link popularity.
Buy an expired domain, make a new site about whatever topic, not especially related to the sites content before, and get top rankings for top searched keywords because of this link popularity/pagerank.
Former Kids/Family/Personal/Education/Computer/Internet..... sites, still listed in dmoz or yahoo, now link to xxx sites. Crazy....
With top rankings...
I know they get busted one time, after a few months, but expired domains with listings in yahoo and dmoz seem to be big business for the past few months.
It is easy to give 1000+ examples...
How can this be possible and accepted?
I think link popularity has become TOO much important in the Google algorithm.
Any comments on this statement?
GoogleGuy?
Welcome to Webmasterworld,
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Buy an expired domain, make a new site about whatever topic, not especially related to the sites content before, and get top rankings for top searched keywords because of this link popularity/pagerank.
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There is a bit more to it than that, You dont become the Worlds Biggest search engine by letting surfers find 100% junk.
Yes, there are problems, and I am sure in time these will get sorted, at the end of the day, if the surfer goes elsewhere than Google have Lost.
Lots and Lots of threads similar to this in the past in this forum, along with comments from users, webmasters and Google.
Shak
Google uses more than 100 factors to rank there results, but as stated so many times before Link popularity is very important when it comes to Google (They use PageRank for messuring Link popularity)
There's been an interesting thread which discusses the different things that means the most when search engines in generaly rank their results Brett's quick rank [webmasterworld.com]
And even though Google seem to put a lot of weight in to link popularity it seems to work, since it presents very good results, and seems/is very popular.
And the issue about expired domains, trust me one day we will see a few people choaking the coca cola they are drinking ;), Google have the whole WHOIS database available, and i am sure in all different versions (it wouldn't suprise me if they have a record of the WHOIS database, one for each day)
So they can go trough that one pretty quickly.
Shakil: Google has not became a junk engine in my opinion but serps where much better before October 2002
Lazerzubb: I know link popularity has become very important with Google, but I think ( personal opinion ), TOO much.
If it is possible to buy expired domains with high link popularity and getting high rankings for any keyword just because of the linkpopularity/pagerank....
Manipulating the rankings has become easy...
if you are that confident about this,
I would be willing to emply you, to see how well you would do in a certain industry, and how long it would take you to get a top 10 listing.
Shak
This will always be the case for some persons, Google get's the most manipulation tests due to it being the most popular one, and the one that drives the most traffic.
It another search engine would drive more traffic i think you would see that, that SE would be the one with the most manipulation cases.
Also if you buy a domain which have some good inbound links they will with the biggest chance not get you a that great position due to the anchor text being unrelated.
[EDIT]Shakil stop posting before i do OK![/EDIT]
>>I would be willing to emply you<<
I guess you mean "on commission" right?
It is a long-standing, effective business model.
Not for the keywords we are talking about here, in 6 months i would probably earn $0 in commision if i targetted "the" specific keyword :)
maximax
It is easy to give 1000+ examples...
that's the problem, out of the millions of searches done each day and the amount of new sites been created and old sites been left as serp litter.
no wonder google has a small problem deciding the off page relevancy of a site when trusted sources like dmoz,yahoo,etc.... can't keep themselves clean. take a look at inktomi litted with un-relevant results.
it's only time until the SE's find the holes and close them (usually they create another for someone to exploit),it's just expired domains this month.
a six of months ago it was blog sites then guestbooks
DaveN
if you are that confident about this,
I would be willing to emply you, to see how well you would do in a certain industry, and how long it would take you to get a top 10 listing.
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Reply: I am confident about this..... AT THIS MOMENT ( algorithms change.. can not look ahead for the next 2 months, at this moment it happens...)
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Lazerzubb wrote:
This will always be the case for some persons, Google get's the most manipulation tests due to it being the most popular one, and the one that drives the most traffic.
It another search engine would drive more traffic i think you would see that, that SE would be the one with the most manipulation cases.
Also if you buy a domain which have some good inbound links they will with the biggest chance not get you a that great position due to the anchor text being unrelated.
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Has nothing to do with traffic from any search engine..
Google is at this moment the only search engine which gives a high importance to link popularity and especially dmoz and yahoo.
For the dmoz part (the yahoo part has to be paid for but has devalued since the google results show up between the directory results in searches made ) also totally unfair as the want unique content for their directory.
Example: somebody made a website about a topic back in 1997 and I make one about the same in 2003.
I will not get listed.......duplicate content and /or no editors available for the category...waiting months and months and months and more months.
Waiting for months and months and more months (up/over 1 year because there are no editors for my category) gives me a big dissadvantage over the people already listed.....
How can dmoz be important for linkpop and/or pagerank?
FAIR? NO! But counts for pagerank/linkpop in Google...
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Also if you buy a domain which have some good inbound links they will with the biggest chance not get you a that great position due to the anchor text being unrelated.
If you buy "FRESH" expired domains this will take at least 2 or 3 months before the anchor text seems to be unrelated
it's only time until the SE's find the holes and close them (usually they create another for someone to exploit),it's just expired domains this month.
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The search engines will only find the holes when the are created by the webmasters.......
New holes will be made as long the search engines change their algorithms
A crazy thing btw as I consider the internet a business.
Monthly changes in algorithms....
Imagine companies changing their telephone number every month and you have to find out first.....
Nope it's a community, businesses, recreational areas even drug dealers and gamblers just like the real community
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Monthly changes in algorithms....
Imagine companies changing their telephone number every month and you have to find out first.....
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your url is your telephone number on the internet and this shouldn't change every month. unlike your position in the search engines which should change every month.
[edited by: DaveN at 4:11 pm (utc) on Jan. 21, 2003]
>>"on commission"
It is a long-standing, effective business model.
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Hi Marcia and all other Webmasterworld addicts:
I work on a "commission business model" since 1999 ( Yes, I am an affiliate for some programs) and indeed it is a very effective business model.......
A crazy thing btw as I consider the internet a business.
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Nope it's a community, businesses, recreational areas even drug dealers just like the real community
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A community, ...that's why I am online 17 hours a day...
I do something wrong....
I am happy and willing to learn someting everyday and increase my online income so please teach me.......
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you wrote:
Monthly changes in algorithms....
Imagine companies changing their telephone number every month and you have to find out first.....
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your url this your telephone number not your position in someone else url
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excuse me, english is not my main language, but this reply...I do not understand.
unlike your position in the search engines which should change every month.
this is what gives a new business a chance to succeed
DaveN
Changing SERPS seems one of the best ways to make your internet business more business like!
Search engine rankings which business people know change all the time and have very little predictability are no basis for a business.
A substantive business has a wide portfolio of promotion avenues, products or services and revenue sources. The cost-time/effectiveness of SEO for free search engines is reducing fast over the past years. Free search engine rankings are no basis for any business.
However when you are getting consistently good rankings on ALL engines it tends to suggest that your site has reached maturity and is ranked high because of your domain/sites reputation rather than exploiting temporary SE algo gaps. You are getting a bit closer to a substantive business then, but still need paid promotion such as PPC/PFI, off line promotion etc.
DaveN had it right... (and he appeciates my sense of humour too so he's a good guy!)
DaveN wrote:
your url is your telephone number on the internet and this shouldn't change every month.
unlike your position in the search engines which should change every month.
this is what gives a new business a chance to succeed
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Giving a new busines a chance to succeed....?
In real life ( not the internet ) only the best busineses succeed. There is no way you GIVE a new business a chance to succeed.
A new business has a better/new or whatever product than his competitors. Same product=less/no success
Your placement should not change every month in the search engines, this makes it a lottery
Minor changes OK, means you have to work a bit on your site, big changes because of algorithm changes....
Makes it a lottery.....
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Chiyo wrote:
Free search engine rankings are no basis for any business.
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I agree with you 100% but are paid rankings a guarantee.
Some examples:
NBCI - pay - what happened....
Looksmart - pay - PPC now
Yahoo - pay -?
Tell me what is a basis for doing internet business as companies change every time and take your money
agreed paid listings are no guarantee, at least up to what the contract says, but my main point was diversity.. a mix of free, PPC, PFI, offsite promotion, online advertising, PR, Press Releases, and a unique or powerful service that none can ignore! If one channel or revenue stream falls off the planet you have lots building up to take their place.
As for yahoo/nbci/looksmart - I dont beleive they broke any business contract with their advertisers. If advertisers read the advertising contracts they would know that listings were not guaranteed for any length of time. So my point being good business people read their contracts! - not just assume what it is exactly that they are buying.
Diversity and flexibility with a unique useful product - for me thats the key. Portfolio management.
>>Tell me what is a basis for doing internet business as companies change every time and take your money<<
A killer product, service or idea.
[edited by: chiyo at 5:11 pm (utc) on Jan. 21, 2003]
a new casino in the middle of some medium sized city will most probaly do better
than a casino on the outskirts of las vegas
the more competive the market place the bigger the sharks are
DaveN
give you an example:
Search on Google for : <snip>
(nothing wrong with this, admins ,I hope)
Take a look at nr.5 in the serps.
Listed in dmoz, an obvious expired domain....
DO YOU UNDERSTAND....
high linkpop/pageranks
1000 examples more...
[edited by: Marcia at 7:34 pm (utc) on Jan. 21, 2003]
[edit reason] no specifics, please [/edit]
it depends on what new business you are going to open
a new casino in the middle of some medium sized city will most probaly do better
than a casino on the outskirts of las vegas
the more competive the market place the bigger the sharks are
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I disagree with you because probably there is more money in Vegas to earn even with a small casino than in a small city
Daven
It's against the TOS no keyword phases that site maybe owned by a member here it would only cause problems i would remove the search term
The keyword phrase is given as an example
I can give you a few more if it makes a difference
I do not own the site nor am I affiliated with it
If not, do some searches your self and you will find them as well
No intend to spam or whatever even it is my first day on the board, just start up a discussion
Thanks
lets say that site is now drawn to the attention of google and it gets banned.
Do you think the owner is in their rights to go through your aff. sites and try to get you banned.
we try to generalise to protect each other. whether it's spam or not, we are not googles spam police. (Googleguy not included ;) )
DaveN
PS Welcome to Webmasterworld :)
[edited by: DaveN at 5:37 pm (utc) on Jan. 21, 2003]
....the fact that it has a dmoz listing may not have anything to do with its ranking..if you check the backlinks they are actually ONTOPIC mostly.....as i see it....its a relevant result and not because it has backlnks that USED to belong to the former site...
You are making a mistaken assumption. They do not get that position in the SERPs *just* because they bought an expired domain. They still have to do a good job at appealing to the other 100+ portions of the algorithm.
Yeah, they are cheating, and getting a boost, but the PR of the page is not the *only* reason they are listed high in the results.
You are also complaining about a practice that is only a problem in certain online sectors. You are not going to find car dealerships, software companies, universites, chiropractic supplies companies or self-help bookstores using this technique.
Have you noticed this practice anywhere other than adult sites? If it is only common in one or two sectors that are totally spammed out anyway, then it will not be a high priority with google.
Remember, Google tests all the changes in their algorithm, so there must be at least a few places where it improved the results.
....the fact that it has a dmoz listing may not have anything to do with its ranking..if you check the backlinks they are actually ONTOPIC mostly.....as i see it....its a relevant result and not because it has backlnks that USED to belong to the former site...
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You checked the backlinks, soapystar....
and what do you see? (LOOK AT AT THE DOMAIN NAMES!)
Yes, all kinds of other domains, nobody would ever register for an adult site.... unless they have an high linkpop
link a lot of sites together with pr6 and wath do you get?
something like pr 5-6.... enough for a high ranking
Google is at this moment the only search engine which gives a high importance to link popularity and especially dmoz and yahoo.
Google doesn't care if a link comes from dmoz, yahoo, or jim's pizzaria homepage. It cares about how related that link is to your site, and the quality of the page it's coming from (which can be inferred via PR).
If you get quality links from a high PR related site, it's just as good as getting a dmoz or yahoo listing (minus the possible directory traffic, and changes on directory importance in yahoo's SERPS).
